My experience with reading the scriptures, be it Bible, Koran, Gita, Vedas, The Tao, I Ching or Upanishads, has been a confirmation of my experiences with my Higher Power and spiritual principles, and these scriptures' meanings keep expanding in correlation to my awareness and experience. A never ending ocean from which I can drink...
Earlier, before working the steps, I used to ponder the meaning of these scriptures according to my limited human mind. But today, I read them as how and what the Higher Power would have meant thru these verses, or what the prophets and apostles would have really meant as per their existential standing, not what my mind thinks it means, and to be able to concieve like that, I find the steps and their application, especially the Third and Eleventh Steps, more and more rewarding... When I read these scriptures today, I don't stop to think what a particular verse means, but listen to my own voice while reading as if a Power greater than me is saying something to me... and not analysing what I read with my limited mind lets me connect thru my heart instead and let the sacred words pervade and cleanse me...
__________________
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
I have been " cracking the book" open more lately Tahir, everytime I do I get slugged in the face LOL and thats what it takes for me to HEAR sometimes.
I bought The Life Recovery Bibles a few months back opened it the day I got it , read a little and put it down, then lately i've been picking it up and reading more, its a 12 step bible and translation of the scripture into the program does seem to help me understand better, hey whatever works right?
So true, BigV. As long as whatever works for me, I would stick to it. The NA program, especially the Eleventh Step has made me realize that my individual program of recovery in NA is all inclusive, not exclusive. My Sponsor also says that there is a lot of similarity between the teachings of the bible and our program, and I have also verified and found that it is true even in context with Buddhism, Sufism, Taoism and Hinduism. As they say, many paths leading to the same destination. As long as I am able to choose a path and am on my journey of recovery the NA Way, the Steps always lead me to open my mind to the unlimited possibilities of knowledge and awareness in the wisdom of all scriptures, and for that, I'm grateful to NA.
__________________
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Also a conclusion ive come to after many years of redaing history,religion and politics=
the geratest mischief maker in history has been religion,,, more blood has been shed because of it than anything else !!!
The Bible has warned about Satan=
"""he rises from the eternal seas,
creating armies on either shore,
turning man against his brother till man lasts no more !!!""""
(((Indeed ,,, Satan has alwys had a staunch ally in religion !!!!its happeining till thisd day as it has for two or three thousand years and will never change its basic nature !!!!)))
Thank God of my Understanding this is a Spiritual and not religious Prigram called Narcotics Anonymous !!!!
-- Edited by Raman at 16:23, 2006-10-04
__________________
Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
"its easy to go out on a cloud of religious zeal!!!"
So true. If I don't live the Steps as a primary source of guidance towards religion or spirituality, very easy for me to get lost...
But the Twelve Steps, for me, are all-encompassing. There is not a single issue or aspect where the Steps cannot be used in my life, and as long as I work a daily program, I have nothing to fear...
__________________
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Quite interesting stuff about Satan and Religion, Raman. I thought it was people of a religion, not the religion, who caused all the bloodshed and wars using a religion as a pretense to exercise their power and lust for bloodshed...
Anyways, I cannot be bothered much about religion in the sense it is talked about or understood nowadays by people. For me, any religion is a way of life, a Good Orderly Direction, experienced by some spiritual person and passed on to others... just like Sponsors do in NA... What we turn this way of life into... we might give it a new name and announce it as a new religion and even be fanatic to the extreme about it... Still, that does not make any religion bad, it's us who make it look bad for our satanic pursuits... WE ARE THE SATANS... ha ha... lol...
Also, today, I have realized that my defects of character is nothing but what I percieve as Satan or My Demons as I like to call it... not some two-horned creature with a tail in between his legs who can corrupt me only if I get into some religion... and my virtues and the spiritual principles that I try to practice in the program is my Higher Power... as simple as that...
Glad that we can talk about so many things today, and gain thru one another's experience, and above all, doing all this in a healthy way, without having to resort to the Satanic ways of our active addiction... LOL...
__________________
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
For the truth is that there are many paths to the top of the mountain. Who is to say which one is best?
__________________
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Also, I have come to an understanding and awareness as a result of living the program in my recovery over a period of time that today I don't have to read any spiritual book, be it Bible or Basic Text to blindly believe what these books say, memorise the lines and verses and quote them every now and then... Thinking the program has never worked for me... These books, the NA literature, as one of our beloved members for whom I have great respect, Greg P has shared once if I remember right, are of no use to us to even stay clean if we don't use what is there in this book... I experience what the program does in my life when I apply the Steps,and then when I read our Basic Text or It Works ~ How & Why or even Bible or Koran, these books only confirm my experiences, and I go "yeah man, so true, what it says here, this is exactly what happened to me last week..." That is feeling and experiencing the program, and that works for me, doesn't matter if I don't even remember that line from Basic Text or in which page it says so... My experiences in recovery and what works for me is my truth and reality, rather than trying to give everything that has been written on the subject. I cannot give what I don't have. After all, our literature is also a culmination of addicts' experiences, just like Tahir's or BigV's or Raman's or Adriana's experience... That's why our program says "Unity Not Uniformity" in Just For Today Book. To each their own. If something works, then it works. As simple as that. It's not necessarily be my way that must work for everyone else. I have had experiences where what never worked for me has been the exact thing that saved many an addicts' life. Reality is subjective. When one says something like "you are not facing reality" it actually means that you are not facing his perception of reality. Understanding this has led me to practice acceptance, tolarance and unconditional love for the first time in my life, in unimaginable and infinite ways... Again, a blessing of the NA program in my recovery. Whenever I tried to fit the program in my life outside of NA, it never worked for me. After many painful experiences and failures, I realized the fact that it is my life outside NA (whatever that might be ~ my educational and career pursuits, my relationships, my religion, showing up everyday, dealing with all kinds of day-to-day things) that has to be fit into the NA program (the 12 Steps)... not the other way around... Many a times, working the NA program in my daily life has given me a direction to many new and astonishing aspects of life, my Higher Power opening up new possibilities for me, if I don't surrender to the magic of the moment, close my mind and turn blind to the miracle by sticking to my old ideas and attitude, I have realized that I can never grow. I can never experience anything new.
-- Edited by Tahir at 18:10, 2006-10-04
__________________
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
All in all, Big V ,,,,bro,, no hard feelings but I want to maintain its a spiritual and not religious Program !!!
Definetly agree with you on this Raman
And thankyou Tahir I love what you right man and the way you can put things out on screen from the heart.
I am filled with spirits, some are demonic and some are angelic, it's a struggle inside but I recognize what and who I am and it is sometimes a battle between the 2, and I have a choice today because I am clean , if I wasn't clean I would have less of a chance to do good and right and moral and loving.
Fighting alot lately to do right, handle whats in front of me, along with who and what comes up is a struggle daily!
Today I had a talk with a friend who's struggling with himself also we are so much alike it's scary, he can be an angry mean SOB like myself and I told him that we have to practice being NICE, to others and ourselves and willing to be honest about our defects and try and make some changes. We've both been in the same places because of addiction but i told him he seems to hang onto the glamour of that place to much and the pride that was neccessary there, we don't need that out here, bigotry and hate need to go. He has a family and I had to tell him that one day his wife was going to resent him for the way he acts and get fed up with him and he acknowledeged that and is afraid of losing her so maybe he'll get moving onto a new path. We both just watched a friend of ours totally destroy his life, his wife and daughters lives because of his addiction, they lost everything it was so hard to watch daily, then they were gone thrown out of the complex we all live in and living on the river.
I am feeling distant lately , much is going on, i'm feeling good one moment and totally drained the next can't seem to keep my a rythm going I think it is my liver and hep C draining me , especially with all the work i'm doing lately.
BigV wrote: I am feeling distant lately , much is going on, i'm feeling good one moment and totally drained the next can't seem to keep my a rythm going I think it is my liver and hep C draining me , especially with all the work i'm doing lately.
I can relate with that. My Hep C prob also drains me of energy every now and then. Those feelings of fatigue when I wake up in the morning, the aches in the limbs and the body without me having done nothing to deserve that... Sometimes, it really freaks me off too... But then, I guess, with acceptance, I am able to move on with faith and doing something to take care of my health...
__________________
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
BigV wrote: I am feeling distant lately , much is going on, i'm feeling good one moment and totally drained the next can't seem to keep my a rythm going I think it is my liver and hep C draining me , especially with all the work i'm doing lately.
I can relate with that. My Hep C prob also drains me of energy every now and then. Those feelings of fatigue when I wake up in the morning, the aches in the limbs and the body without me having done nothing to deserve that... Sometimes, it really freaks me off too... But then, I guess, with acceptance, I am able to move on with faith and doing something to take care of my health...
Another fellow Hep C card holder LOL
Welp the best thing we can do to extend our lives , at least at the hands of hep C is to remain sober. I've found that when neccessary I have an abundance of energy I just have to tap into it and push out the pain and fatigue.
I don't over do it in the gym anymore, doing leg sqauts and press's used to keep me down for 3 days it just took much out of me so I no longer do them, I used to be a heavy steroid cycler, thats stopped . I try to eat better but i fall now and again and binge on icecream or cakes, then get back on my salads and chicken breasts , back and fourth UGH!!!
ICE CREAMS AND CHOCOLATE AND MILKSHAKES ARE MY CURRENT OBSESSION... I BREATH WITH THEM... OH I NEED TO GO AND GET AN ICECREAM RIGHT NOW... LOL...
__________________
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
that's the prayer i find myself saying as i rest my head on my pillow. only thing is i didn't have it straight.lol..missed a bunch of lines and changed some others, but it works for me.
i love how you broke it down , something i don't understand ,like Consecration!
Another fellow Hep C card holder LOL
well i see i'm in good company....
i might now have it now, i had one test, about a year ago, that came back as clean. so i just talked to someone yesturday to get retested , just to make sure no one screwed up ...lol..
keep your fingers crossed that it comes back clean two , will take three or four weeks for the test results... sitting on pins and needles...
tonight i'll try to remember the lines to the prayer . and if i can't i can allways find them here..
i've watched and read alot about religion too and you are so right about that being the number one cause of bloodshed.
when i see someone on tv preaching , i get chills. one bad apple can ruin the whole barrel.
i now pick and choice what i want and don't want from any religion, i take a bit from here and a bit from there and mix it up to fit my understanding of HP.
thanks for sharing , raman. hope to see you around soon...hugs and love peggy
I BREATH WITH THEM... OH I NEED TO GO AND GET AN ICECREAM RIGHT NOW... LOL...
