that in some ways AA members have it a little easier than NA's. But in some ways it's harder. LOL I know how foggy that sounds, but allow me to explain.
AA says "no alcohol" no exceptions. A very clear, absolute message. There is NEVER a good reason to drink.
NA says "no drugs.........except"... get it? There are excellent reasons to use narcotics or other addictive drugs, and our program allows drug use in certain circumstances. so our message is not as clear. We do allow for narcotic use under prescribed conditions, but still. It is not as clear as AA's absolute and total ban on alcohol.
So our message is blurred, while AA's message is clear. That makes their program easier.
Yet drinking is socially acceptable. Bars on every corner. Alcohol sold virtually everywhere makes it harder for them....
KISS. The NA Program does not allowthe use of narcotics or other addictive drugs. NA's message is clear not blurred, a program of complete abstinence from all mind altering substances which our literature clearly states, of which alcohol is but one. So indeed AA has much narrower focus being single drug specific.
Taking doctor prescribed medication with full disclosure of our disease and support of NA members is not the same as drug use any more than someone going to Over Eaters Anonymous would have to stop eating anything ever again. KISS
Harder, easier who gives a rip! To me this type of thinking can be fun mental masterbation, or the disease of addiction getting sneaky.
Oh, speaking of alcohol being socially acceptable. Socially acceptable does not necessary equal healthy or moral or spiritually sound or whatever. I mean, while it may be socially acceptable to eat people in a cannibal society, uh, think I'll not go there!
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Work the Steps or Die MF. (My Friend :) Clean One Day At a Time by The Grace of God through The Power of NA
hEY dON..,,The only thing I got from some AA meetings(sometimes I lead for friends celebrations) sometimes I just make a meeting)was their adamant disagreement with 'ADDICTION IS A DISEASE" oldtimers usually say that addiction is symptom of the disease, no such thing as addiction being a disease...(can find many different scenarios on that ,being a choice,a disease, a symptom blah)many I have met rather matter of factly..See for me I am a firm believer in the physical,mental and spiritual illness of addiction worming its way in "all" areas of my life.Once I put drug down,I knew how sick I really was(AM)..You are correct AA'S ONLY focus on alcohol(OF COURSE THAT AS THE SUBSTANCE(CHEMICAL),NOT AS FAR AS THE WORK TO GET IN THE "SOLUTION").Another thing I don''t care for is the degree of sickness expressed FROM SOME..'Well YOUR NOT A REAL ALCOHOLIC,YOUR JUST A HEAVY DRINKER OR THE DIFFERENT QUALIFICATIONS THAT THE BIG BOOK talks of..I understand but to arguE over "are you recovered or recovering or "real " or less than real seems to bring back the old "Clarity statement syndrome TO ME that we lived through here last year(what came first chicken or egg scenario)(REmember that nightmare!!)ANYWAY thanks for your thoughts and Mike thanks for your input in share below..More is going to be revealed"HERE" SHORTLY :) :)PEACE MY BROTHERS!!!
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Our purpose is to remain clean,just for today,and to carry the message of recovery.
NA's focus is on addiction, not addiction to particular substance. This leads to gray areas concerning abstaining from some mind/mood altering substances, such as medications prescribed by doctors, and caffeine, nicotine, chocolate, and sugar. All I can say about this is to be honest about your use of any substance, and its impact on your mind/behavior.
Indeedy, the name of the game is ongoing recovery from the disease of addiction not just abstinence from using a drug or drugs. Since I have the disease of addiction I can have a tendancy or nature toabuse about anything, but don't have to.
For instance I own a specialty coffee roasting company and three coffee houses. (or they own me, but that's a different can of worms) I'm daily surrounded by piles of some the best coffees in the world. Often customers etc. make comments like you must drink a lot coffee. Funny thing is I don't. Most days two maybe three cups. Even on a day like today working a 15 hour day on 4 hours sleep after a 16 hour day on 5 hours sleep only had a whopping four cups including a shot of the last of a fantastic Ethiopia DP Haile Selassie when I got home a few ago. (and every cup delish and different ) Not exactly over doing it abusing caffeine me thinks. I know not to drink too much, don't like the effect.
But then I didn't start drinking coffee until 1984 at age 30 after tasting fresh roasted, fresh ground fresh brewed coffee for the first time. Interestingly it was a Clean addict who introduced me to coffee as culinary! So coffee has never been about the caffeine but rather about the taste for me. Never drank the canned drek brewed at most meetings and still don't, yuk. Anyway Debi and I were taking a car vacation through California including a few days in San Francisco. As it happened I was chair of the PNW Convention that year and the Saturday Night speaker we selected was from SF. I had contacted him before we left to plan a time to meet, he of course "forced us" to cancel our hotel reservations and stay with him while in SF. That first evening at his classic SF apartment on a steep hill over looking the bay he brewed something I'd never smelled before. So after first declining a cup the smell changed my mind and I tasted coffee I'd never tasted before and I was hooked. Not addicted like H, but hooked like on any good culinary dish. So I can Blame NA for being an artisan specialty coffee professional today! Which has little or nothing to do with recovery from addiction other than being part of my Journey in recovery.
Which is not to say I can go out there now and then and have a shot, line, snort, toke, pill, fix etc.!!!
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Work the Steps or Die MF. (My Friend :) Clean One Day At a Time by The Grace of God through The Power of NA
Mike.M,,, hiya from an addict in a coffee region.. Karnataka and Coorg in India.... Arabica and robusta,,, and the last local convention was held there...... Among estates and estates of coffee....... 300 addcts celebrating recovery in coffeeland....
Now heres the thing,, Im going to say it, say it plainly, state the facts and run for cover...
Bill.W's association with Aldous Huxley (famous writer and philosopher) lead him to use LSD. They used it tether to discover "truth". Those days it was a mind opener,,, and in that state of mind was framed the 12 Step Tradition..
Yes, AA's focus was and is on stayin sober from alcohol...even to any extent, as long as an alky in AA hasnt had a first drink, it's ok...
We in NA know that the " disease of addiction involved much more than the use of drugs"..
-- Edited by Raman on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:53:19 PM
-- Edited by Raman on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:58:04 PM
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Mike.M,,, hiya from an addict in a coffee region.. Karnataka and Coorg in India.... Arabica and robusta,,, and the last local convention was held there...... Among estates and estates of coffee....... 300 addcts celebrating recovery in coffeeland....
Now heres the thing,, Im going to say it, say it plainly, state the facts and run for cover...
Bill.W's association with Aldous Huxley (famous writer and philosopher) lead him to use LSD. They used it tether to discover "truth". Those days it was a mind opener,,, and in that state of mind was framed the 12 Step Tradition..
Yes, AA's focus was and is on stayin sober from alcohol...even to any extent, as long as an alky in AA hasnt had a first drink, it's ok...
We in NA know that the " disease of addiction involved much more than the use of drugs"..
-- Edited by Raman on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:53:19 PM
-- Edited by Raman on Friday 7th of January 2011 11:58:04 PM
Way cool, would have loved to have been there. India produces some fine coffees. One of my faves Mysore Nuggets Extra Bold. I mean, besides being a very fine coffee (or can be as all coffees are an agricultural product and quality varies picking to picking crop to crop to season to season etc.) how can you pass on a coffee with a name like that!
Have no knowledge of the truth or myth of AA Steps evolving using acid. Strangely one of those drugs I had "fun" with now and then and always while using other drugs, but never effected me complusion wise like virtually any other drug. Which isn't to say I'm going to find out if I handle it today!
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Work the Steps or Die MF. (My Friend :) Clean One Day At a Time by The Grace of God through The Power of NA
hahaha,,,, yes Mike,,, thank God we never have to use again,, and Bless NA that we have no desire to use...
A for the acid trip writings, I read that on the net,, assumed they were an authoratitive source.... however, it could be rumours or plain old mischief...
That said,, I am reminded that addiction is a cunning enemy of life and the principla opponent of the recovering addict.
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Hey Raman! Yes I have also read that Bill W's "white light experience' was a result of massive Belladonna USAGE TO GET HIM STRAIGHT and there was much more 'drug' usuage involved.We also have to be careful not to "deify" any humans as believe it or not even Bill W and Dr. Bob and Dr. Silkworth WERE ONLY HUMAN..tHERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE IN BOTH FELLOWSHIPS WHO PRONOUNCE THEMSELVES AS "ANDAS" THAT i KNOW "OLD SCHOOL " PEOPLE CRINGE AND ACTUALLY FROTH at the statements.I can only be blessed with the grace and mercy of my Higher Power that has allowed me to make the last choice between life and death. WE WERE IN THE GRIP OF A HOPELESS DILEMMA,THE SOLUTION OF WHICH IS SPIRITUAL IN NATURE.Our purpose is to remain clean,just for today,and to carry the message of recovery!!God allows me that opportunity and I work toward being all God intended me to be one day at a time...Good topic Don ,thanks.................
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Our purpose is to remain clean,just for today,and to carry the message of recovery.
I kind of see the coming of AA as but a preparatory step for the coming of NA. In God's infinite wisdom he knew society wasn't ready at the time for such a sweeping all encompassing program as NA. Too much stigma and fear and ignorance existed surrounding the nature of addiction and the addict. Once AA was accepted by the mainstream society became ready and He gave us His full plan.
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Work the Steps or Die MF. (My Friend :) Clean One Day At a Time by The Grace of God through The Power of NA
I'm greatful for both programs though I go to AA more then I do NA , right now the literature i am reading is from the NA big book LOL. I love how the NA literature speaks to me in plain easy english where as AA's literature is a little more difficult to desipher.
Guys get a chance take a look at the book thats out, a copy of manuscripts for the AA big book that Bill W passed out to the first 100 members and a few doctors I believe ( dont quote me ) , he got opinions an editing done by all those who participated, it's a pretty neat thing to see and the notes jotted down by members .
Anyhoo , good stuff guys thanks for sharing I always learn a little something each time I come around.
IMHO most "old timers" in AA who proclaim that alcoholism is not a disease have not really read the Big Book very carefully. And amazingly the wisdom of the multi-faceted disease concept (B.Wilson xxvi 3rd ed. and xxviii; xxx, Dr. Silkworth) was a half a century before we knew the first thing about the endorphins and neurotransmitters that are at the root of the disordered process that provokes addiction, as a chronic, progressive, disease highly prone to active physical recurrence and spiritual deterioration.
I have never understood why, in the face of decades of valid research, literature, medical science, and our stories of successful recovery, people hang on to the outdated and misleading beliefs that continue to fuel stigma, ignorance, intolerance, and the withholding of funding parity for the treatment and healthcare of addicts. Where is our "pink ribbon" movement?
Then again, it did take the human race quite a while to figure out that it wasn't the best move to throw people with schizophrenia into cess pool-like dungeons. Guess I'm just terminally impatient.
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From dying and surviving to living and thriving. LeeU
I started out in the fellowship of AA although my primary addiction is drugs. With that said, I can relate more to the fellowship of NA because it is all-encompassing.....alcohol is a drug...I am just as powerless over alcohol as I am over drugs. I met some really wonderful people in AA but I could not share with them my issues with drug addiction and I really felt I needed to be among those who were suffering from drug addiction. I personally would like to see both fellowships become one fellowship as I have left both AA meetings and NA meetings much stronger and happier than when I first walked through the door.
AVID: All I can say about this is to be honest about your use of any substance, and its impact on your mind/behavior.
) Not exactly over doing it abusing caffeine me thinks. I know not to drink too much, don't like the effect.
