How to forgive yourself?

backtomegan · Member

How to forgive yourself?

avid · Guru

Hi Megan,
I remember you. We registered here at MIP at about the same time. Glad to hear that you doing well.
The solution is in the steps.
The 12 steps of NA are designed to rid us of the emotional wreckage of our past. By working the steps you cultivate a relationship with a higher power who loves, cares, and most importantly forgives you for the past deeds.
I used to dread waking up in the morning. I would have this knot in my stomach, and always try to roll over and pull the covers back up and try to will myself back to sleep. I didn't want to face the day because I hated myself.
But I don't feel this way anymore. I still have alot of work to do, but I can face life now, I don't live in constant remorse.
I owe it all to the steps, my sponsor who guides me through, the meetings where I get the experience, strength and hope of others, and of course my higher power through whom all things are possible.
Keep coming back.

Tahir · Member

Congrats on the Big 4 Months Clean!!!

MIKEF · Guru

Hi Megan! Yes forgiveness is a very important spiritual process.Sometimes it seems easier to forgive others than it is to forgive ourselves.I found step work,with your sponsor and the God of your understanding eventually allows you to move forward in those areas,remember we first get ready to have our defects removed(forgiveness of ourselves can be one)and then we humbly ask and only God can remove them and which ones need to go at the correct time.Focus on your entry back into life (congrats on 4 months ,you know its a miracle for us)Stay close to your support group in and out of the rooms and share from your heart,continue to free yourself..Great hearing a wonderful message of someone working in the solution ,a simple honest message of recovery from addiction always rings true..Wait to hear more from you!!! smile

JoeB · Senior Member

Thanks Megan.

I think for me forgiveness had to start by practice. I have done it in small chunks. It's something I have to practice. I started I think by recognizing my anger when someone cut me off in traffic. I just started forgiving them outloud. For a time I was just saying it, we used to say faking it. At some point I began to see that become a habit. I saw what it looked like to forgive someone. Once I know what something looks like, I have something to go by.

The little cliches and literature all tell me that I have to make the effort first. The steps took me through my life and I had to learn some tools quickly to cope and some tools came alot slower. Faith in a higher power has been the most useful tool to guide me through the emotional difficulties, such as shame and guilt that I began to recognize as I worked through the steps.

My sponsor had some pretty good suggestions and I have practiced some forgiveness on him as well. Once I learn to forgive others and practice it as a principle I can usually turn that effort inward at the appropriate time.

Tahir · Member

There are things from my past that could threaten to fill me with guilt and shame even today, but I've observed that having written about these things, having admitted it all to myself and to my Higher Power, and after sharing about it with another, be it with my Sponsor as part of my Fifth Step or at a meeting (that I've also done at times), I felt much lighter, I felt a sense of liberation, the more I share about such stuff that I end up doing, the more freedom I get from the traps of guilt and shame, the two great allies of my disease that constantly work on bringing me down again.

My therapist used to tell me back in the days of my wilderness - don't feel guilty, just be responsible. That really helped me to move away from the problem, into the solution...

imikens · Senior Member

I'm sorry but you can't forgive yourself. No living being forgives him or her self. Forgiveness doesn't work that way.

What is it exactly you are looking for? A feeling of what? The idea that somehow not feeling forgiven by yourself is needed to move forward with your recovery and be a healthy effective person is false.

Soberiety, and what comes with it, is a gift. You don't by an act of the will, will yourself into any of it. Including feeling "ok", feelling "forgiven", etc.

The best way I can illustrate this is a tomato plant. I can not by an act of my will make a tomato plant grow a big healthy tasty tomato. I can by an act of my will choose behaviors that put that tomato plant in a place that it will more likely grow me a big healthy tasty tomato but I can not by my will force that tomato to grow a tomato. I can pick a good plant, I can prepare the soil, I can fertilize it accordingly, water it properly, protect it from pests and insects, make sure it gets the right amount of sunlight, etc. But at the end of the day the tomato plant gifts me, if you will, a tomato. The tomato I eat is a gift.

Sobriety, feeling "ok", feeling "forgiven" are a gift of the work we do in recovery. You don't by any act of your will, any particlar behavior, obtain those gifts. They are GIFTS. The moment you set any of the gifts up as a target to be obtained it is my opinion, opinion mind you, a person is starting to work their recovery as an addict. They have slid over to manipulating people, places and things for a desired outcome. We as addicts can easly work our recovery just like we did our addiction.

My advice to you is to drop the whole idea and your need to feel forgiven. It is an impossible task, you can't will the unwillable, work your recovery, open yourself up for the gifts of sobriety. And one day you'll go, "Hey, I feel great today..." and you won't care one wit about whether or not your figured out how to "forgive yourself".

Just my two cents.

-- Edited by imikens on Wednesday 9th of June 2010 10:41:10 AM

MIKEF · Guru

Hey imikens! Nice to meet you.Thanks for sharing your feelings.These are thoughts I have about forgiving oneself(myself). First it doesn't mean to me that I should forget what I did or said to injure another or caused myself distress.It also doesnt mean to me that Im not responsible for what I did or said. For me ,it means I might have done something differently if I had known how.It means that when I was in the grip I didnt either know how or chose not to do something differently and I have learned by my mistakes.Forgiving myself helps me accept myself just as I was before I made the mistake and to quit holding it over my own head as I can't get it back,and I must free myself thru self fearless and searching daily inventories.. ,i can only take the lesson I hopefully learned.You are absolutely correct our trust in our HP and our working in the solution of the steps help us go forward, Of course for me this always starts with me asking for forgiveness from my HP for my transgressions and also asking for the ablitiy(which I sometimes struggle) to forgive others )all parts of my 6th/7th/8th steps and spiritual principles of NA, that I try and work daily.. My only need is not to "feel" forgiven it is to honestly admit to my HP my petition for His forgiveness and His ability to allow me to forgive myself and others..Just.my thoughts.Talk to you on the rebound!! smile

imikens · Senior Member

All of that true. Does not change the truth that we don't forgive ourselves and in trying to do so we are acting out on one of the primary characteristics of an addicts mind set. We when acting like addicts try to will the unwillable.

Have we done things that need to be forgiven? Most certainly. Are we responsible for behaviors we choose when being active in our addiction? ABSOLUTELY. Does all that add up to us wanting to feel forgiven? Most definetely Mr. Watson.....

Does not then mean you can forgive yourself or do something that will cause you to feel like you have forgiven yourself.

Two entirely different things.

Self forgiveness is one of those things that sounds good but with just a tad of scrutiny does not hold true.

We do not forgive ourselves. What ever feeling one is looking for that is described by the phrase comes as a fruit of working our recovery, as a result of watering our recovery, tilling the soil, getting the right amount of light.

We easily as addicts cross these kinds of things up and make fruits, gifts, targets.

I can't will the admiration of others. I can't will the love of my wife. I can't will my sobriety. I can't will my own forgiveness.

We get to whatever one is looking for as described by the phrase, forgive myself, as a gift.

Do I want to feel like I've forgiven myself? Ya, you betcha! I however don't get to that feeling by "forgiving myself".

-- Edited by imikens on Wednesday 9th of June 2010 11:59:51 AM

avid · Guru

forgiveness is a spiritual principle that we cultivate when working the steps.
I love the act of forgiving, it brings me peace.
I love feeling forgiven, it also brings me peace.
ergo, forgiving myself = peace to the second power? LOL I dunno but i like it.

salvagable · Veteran Member

Like all these guys say, you'll find that self forgiveness in the steps, and you'll re-enforce your recovery as you go alone, try to remember that abstinense does not equal recovery, people like us have to take out extra insurance, staying clean and going to meetings will only work for so long, before we star telling our selves, ( I'm doing fine,why do more) and before we know it we find our self in that tempting situation, what ever it may be and our stomachs star flipping, if we don't have a solid foundation we're most likely going to re-lapse, and find our selves once again in that unbearable missery that got us here to begin with ,good luck to you.

imikens · Senior Member

backtom....

This might be helpful. I posted the link in another thread. I encourage you to check it out and see if this helps any. Totally an AA/12 Step guy. Its about Shame and Guilt.

http://hindsfoot.org/eksg.html

Raman · Guru

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,,
lots of info mr.Middleton,,,
Im going to have to give all that a lot of thought.

I think self-forgiveness comes at the end of the process....
I go out with my list, i ask for forgiveness, make a decision to stay with the amends, then I ask God for that forgiveness,,, and in the meanwhile I forgive too.

And at the end of it all,, In the Stillness I may say
"Raman,, I forgive you".

(Voice of God ?)

MIKEF · Guru

Scripture only talks of linear and horizontal forgiveness,but I believe writings include me in them"when you stand praying,if you hold anything against anyone(anyone includes me)forgive him,so your father in heaven may forgive you.Many spiritual ,secular writings talk of self forgiveness,I believe if God forgives me then I will not be spiritually fit to do His will by holding on to self detriment. With God all things are possible....subjects for mere mortals to debate ,,can you or can you not lose your salvation? does man have a soul or is he a soul? is it really the body and blood at transubstantiation or just symbols of? I no longer have to "have the obsessive need to be right,I have a God who I,m sure looks at his children and says:Man there they go again,Mike's gonna take his ball home ,if you don;t let him play :)Have a blessed day!!

imikens · Senior Member

The feeling of being forgiven, the feeling described by the phrase "forgive myself", is not the same as being forgiven. We can know we are forgiven and not feel like we are.

The good stuff of recovery are fruit, outcomes, not targets. Joy is a similar thing. Joy is a fruit not a target. The moment I set joy up as a target, "Today I am going to be joyful..." you will NOT experience joy and infact will experience un-joy. Whatever un-joy looks like to you.

Secondly by setting the gifts of recovery up as targets you increase your shame. You will increase the very feeling you are trying to stop. Because you can't make yourself feel forgiven, can't forgive yourself, BUT you believe you can and try real real hard to do so. I'm not being ficticious there. I mean that folks work really really hard with a great deal of sincerity in attempting to forgive themselves. And what happens? They can't forgive themselves. So instead of deciding there is something flawed with the belief, the strategy, that says I can forgive myself they instead decide there is even more wrong with themselves. They don't feel forgiven so they conclude they must really be flawed you see. I'm so messed up I can't even seem to forgive myself.

And what do we call that?

Yes that's correct young Sky Walker, we call that shame.

So now you don't feel forgiven AND you are increasing your shame.

Now that's a good combination for addicts hey?

As addicts we can do this bait and switch instantly. We swap the fruit of our recovery to goals or targets that we "need" like a reflex. We do not want to do the next right thing and leave the result up to God.

We want to act in a way that we think will guarantee the outcome. Remember we are master manipulators?

I can not by an act of my will will the un-willable.

I can work my recovery and keep myself in a postion of receiveship, humility if you will, gratitide if you will, and trust that my part is doing the next right thing. God's part is to bring the fruit to maturity.

I don't sit around waiting to "feel" forgiven. I work my recovery, I work at a new way of thinking and living. I work at staying out of the center of the universe and at attempting to contain myself at how amazed I am at the life God gives me.

You can't forgive yourself. Not possible.

Trying to do so is damaging to ourselves as when we can't do the impossible we are more likely than less likely to increases our shame. When what we need to do is challenge our misbeliefs and replace those lies with the truth.

Enjoy your day.

Edit: Left out a step. We can't forgive ourselves, instead of letting go of the lie that we can, we try harder to forgive ourselves, our shame goes up, we still aren't feeling like we've forgiven ourselves, so instead of being honest about it, we slip into denial.

We slip into denial by either saying I don't need to feel forgiven OR I am feeling forgiven when I am in fact NOT.

We need to know and feel we are forgiven. We do not get there by "forgiving ourselves".

-- Edited by imikens on Friday 11th of June 2010 10:57:18 AM

MIKEF · Guru

Yes Imikens! have a blessed day through God's grace and mercy.... smile

MIKEF · Guru

Raman! This morning's writings tell me"Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me,or seen in me..put into practice.And the God of peace will be with you. peace my friiend,have a blessed day!!

Raman · Guru

Thanks Mike,, you too.

Raman · Guru

Thanks for sharing that imikens,,,
cant say I understood a fat lot of that, but anyways, your share has a lot in it...

MIKEF · Guru

This can't turn into a "clarity statement thing because we are about unity and searching for God's will for us ,but basic text tells us in "8th step starts process of forgiveness,we forgive others,possibly we are forgiven and finally we forgive ourselves and learn how to live in the world.(5th edition)I have spiritual readings that talk only of linear and horizontal forgivenss Just for Today has many references to "self forgiveness" but just a meditation book(remorse,expectations,amends),so point is going to be many addicts with varying degrees of thought on this statement...Its no big deal because God is watching his children play and saying""its okay I'll let you all know the answers when its time" :) I know my God forgives me and gives me ability to forgive...... Have a blessed and productive day!! smile

imikens · Senior Member

While it seems like this could be one of those hair splitting, how many angels can fit on the head of a pin, kinda discussion in fact it is an important discussion. Understanding why it is I don't forgive myself and that I can't defines the "work" in the work of recovery and the "success" in what successful recovery looks like. In that regard the ideas that surface in the discussion are important and immensely practical.

Let's say one of the guages I am using to determine the "success" in a successful recovery is how forgiven I feel and how good I am at forgiving myself.

I will of course be very busy at doing whatever work I think is necessary to forgive myself and I will either be on a roller coaster ride all the time vacillating between feeling successful and feeling like a failure as my "feeling" that I am or am not forgiving myself will swing back and forth between feeling forgiven and feeling unforgiven. I'll either, because I don't like the feeling, be in denial or be focused on creating one particular outcome and manipulate myself, my experience, people places and things to have that outcome, feeling forgiven. And the horrifically sick reward is, remember I define "success" in successful recovery as how much I feel forgiven, the better I am at manipulating myself, people places and things, to have that feeling the more successful I am convinced I am in recovery.

When all I am doing is conducting my recovery as an addict.

Keeping what is a fruit of recovery as fruits and not as targets, goals, guages to determine how successful my recovery is, this is important. It is the difference from being healthy in recovery vs. working recovery as an addict.

If I don't think I can work my recovery as an addict than I am not giving my addiction, addictive mindset the proper fear or respect it deserves.

I can work my TV as an addict. Just ask my family and my remote control. I can certainly work my recovery as an addict I need to be very careful about doing so.

When I am busy trying to forgive myself, feel like I've forgiven myself, I am very concerned that those demands on myself are symptoms that I have slid from letting what I experience as a result of my recovery be gifts TO manipulating and controlling people, places and things so that I can achieved a desired effect.

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