Hi family I am really been sitting on this one and I looked up the definition of relationship-continuing attachment or associations between persons, firms, etc.
Now my question is this if no relationships for the first year, would this not include the relationship I have with my sponsor, other members, homegroup, family, with my self, and with My Hp wouldn't that mean I was still like I was in active addiction. In our basic text it just says that relationships can be a painful area. I have to disagree with the suggestion of no relationships within the first year of recovery. HMMM I think I am overly thinking on this one maybe even complicating the hell out of a simple statement.
Thanks for your post, Shannon. What I was told is not to make ANY major life decisions during that first year. This means jobs, divorce, starting a NEW romance, etc. The reason I was given is because we change SO MUCH during the first year. We don't even know ourselves, yet. Most of us haven't done a 4th step yet. And still, just by living clean we begin to change sooo fast.
One of the hardest things for an addict new to recovery to learn is how to JUST SLOW DOWN! While using most of us lived at a frantic pace, just moving from one crisis to the next trying to maintain control. In recovery we learn that control is an illusion that must be shattered. Instead of trying to do EVERYTHING at once, we learn to take it one day at a time and address one problem at a time. (Paraphrase) "We take care of our most obvious problems first and let go of the rest. As we go on new opportunities for improvement present themselves."
Another danger inherent in romantic envolvements is that my disease will make it very easy for me to focus my time, energy, and finances on another person instead of working on myself. As long as I am distracted by trying to fix YOU, I don't have to look at ME. Also, more than likely, anyone I might get involved with in early recovery is probably just as sick as I am. Two SICK-O's don't make a WELL-O!!
Great thread, Shannon. Thanks.
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"With a sweet tongue of kindness, you can drag an elephant by a hair." ~Persian Proverb
me to focus my time, energy, and finances on another person instead of working on myself.
Even with a sponsor if you allow that sponsor to they can take the focus off of you and put it on them. I mean my sponsor right now is so unresponsive. I almost feel like I am sponsoring me I put call in after call and she acts like she doesn't know how to pick the phone up and call anyone. I have a sponsor sister that has 60 days clean and my sponsor told her to call her everyday. She has been calling but she is frustrated with the fact that our sponsor isn't responding to our calls either. So I am looking at this relationship and thinking this is a really sick relationship with my sponsor and I am only 7 months clean and no major life decisions. I have been saying this a lot if I were to relapse my sponsor would be the very last person to know right now. My network would know before she does. I really don't know what to do and I don't want to give her up as a sponsor, but if I can't get a hold of her and tell her how I am feeling what am I supposed to do???? I am getting really frustrated and I am practicing my first step with this one. I am powerless over her, I accept the fact she is not available, I am honest about when I share with people in my network how I am feeling, I have surrendered her to my HP. What more can this addict do right now?
What was taught to me about relationships in the first yr. was that sexual relationships wouldn't be healthy for me. It's suggested to focus on self. You are the most important person in life, so get to know you!
Hi Shannon,,I dont know if you want to know what I think or want my expreience in recovery but Ill share it anyways,,take what you want and leave the rest . i am onl;y going to touch it broadly,,without details being mentioned. Know well also,,that I speak from my own personal standpoint and I do not(nor does anyone here for that matter)reflect the Fellowships stand or policy !!!
Now,,,,on Relationships and what to avoid in the first year= I think the emphasis is on being able to stay serene in romantic relationships. if we lose serenity we may even lose clean time,, and the Basic Text simpkly says that those of us who do not die of our disease will end up in jails or institution or face complete demoralization as the disease progresses. We need to bear in mind that the disease involves much more than the use of drugs and that I as an addict can use romantic relationships to change the way I feel about myself . Rightly relating tp someone I love isnt a problem,,its when I try and fix feelings. Old attitudes still get us into trouble and as I have experienced in various phases in my recovery control issues that remain hidden or dormant in other areas can suddenly surface in romance. Then again I believe there is no truth in the "they say" thing,,so what I need to do is get perspective from my sponsor and other who know me well enough to offer a valid,informed,unbiased opinion. Just for today I will have faith in someone who believes in me and wants to help me in my recovery !! Remember ?
-- Edited by Raman at 11:40, 2008-12-30
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Also, a suggestion that was given to me was "don't get into a relationship until you've done at least your fourth and fifth steps"
Another one that I heard an oldtimer say once was "if you wanna really know the real you deep within, get into a relationship." lol...
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Now coming to my own personal experiences, without working steps in my daily life, relationship is a no-no for me even if I'm more than a year clean or 5 years clean or whatever...
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
I just turned two(yay!) and I've managed to stay out of relationships! It has been awesome and I've made quality friendships along the way. I have always been so good at being a friend and if even the hint of a relationship starts my character defects come flying to the surface!! It's craziness. There is a fine line between staying out of relationships and closing myself off. Following this particular suggestion keeps me safe from getting hurt so it's not 100% healthy recovery on my part. It's a little bit defense mechanism as well. Either way it gets the job done:) I just want to stay in HP's will ya know?
Ha,ha,ha,thanks for that alygat4. Im not laughing wat you buddy,,im laughin with you. Fab wisdom,,,no wonder most great Spiritual Masters had no romantic relationships,,,not worth the rouble and torture ??????? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,,,heh,heh,heh !!!!
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
WELL the good thing about a relationships is that the DEFECTS DO COME UP lol gives yuh a chance to have something to really work on but it does suck and is painful usually for both partys unfortunately.
At the moment I have an AWESOME girlfriend who is working with me on my defects I honestly am not sure just how much longer she can do it though so I need to really start showing some results LOL, yeah it's that bad!!! and i'm hating ME right now but this is what I am who I am rough around the edges and pretty ugly at times ,my hope and experience is that i can make changes it just takes awhile to get there .
unfortunately, our core programs (NA, AA) don't give us many tools to deal with relationships, other than the basics. If it weren't for the Coda program I don't think that I'd still be clean and sober, let alone happily married for 12 years (in a 16 year relationship). I did a lot work, read books, had "practice relationships", learning how to end them without feeling abandoned...
I think Shanon is talking about the relationship with her sponsor here though. In early recovery, IMO, a sponsor should take on the role of a confidant. Say like the wizard of OZ. They are not your friend, not someone to be bonding to, just a source of wisdom and answers to guide us. We need the fellowship for our friends, and we need desparately to learn how to remain on our own two feet emotionally and not lean so much on other people, by way of shifting that leaning to our higher power. Other people will always fail us, sooner or later, if we lean on them too hard. It's not their job to hold us up. We hold ourselves up through spirituality and faith in our HP. We learn this by watching others and attending step meetings. There are 11ths step meetings that are good for studying this.
Dean, I also work the RCA program, together with my wife, besides NA, for relationship support and help. Yes, CoDA also is a great support to have, to work on relationships.
BigV, just like you said, a relationship does offer us an opportunity to grow in leaps and bounds more by giving us a chance to work on our defects and dysfunctional patterns more intensely, be it a relationship with spouse or with parents/siblings/friends...
After coming to NA, for the first time, I got to experience real caring relationships with the help of the program, starting with self, with my Higher Power, with my parents, with my Sponsor/sponsees/members. I could live life fully and experience this seemingly complex but amazing path of more self-discovery.
My first time Fourth and Fifth Steps was my turnaround point. It changed the entire outlook I had on relationships and other people in my life. I could never comfortably employ those defects/dysfunctions again today in my social interactions... I guess that's why its a WE program. The presence of others in my life helps me find the real "me"
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Well now,, geting back to basics, I think we tend to equate having a relationship as an essential to becoming acceptable members of society. i deduce this after reading and thinking about the many,many posts here about the nature of relationships and the problems and challenge they bring in their wake. While it maybe good for my ego to claim experience of living a relationship and then proclaiming I worked the Steps in that context there however remains the fact that nowhere has it said in the Basic Text that I must be in a romantic relationship to be called a recovering addict. I say this because that is what many posts seem to imply,,the message seems to be "if you are not in a (romantic) relationship then you havent experienced social acceptability and therefore cannot be callled a truly recovering addict". Well,,the fact of the matter is that the Text clearly says that "SOCIAL ACCEPTABILITY DOES NOT EQUEAL RECOVERY". Which means I dont have to equate being in a (romantic) relationship with living the program". Moreover like its been mentioned before,,relationships refer also to other family,friends,sponsor,co-workers and collegues,Fellow NAs,etc. Relationship refers to people that I relate to on a daily basis and is not confined to only the romantic ones. Every relationship has its stresses,strains,joys and mysteries and each one of them challenge our comfort zones. I have also come to believe that I have free choice to be only in sane,responsible and reciprocal relationships. Where I have to coexist with people who continue to be sad,mad,bad inspite of my best efforts at understanding and non-judgement,,they simply stay as acquaintance, a necessary evil of sorts !!!!
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
I have to say that the NA friendships I'm blessed with today and the awesome relationships I have with God, family and my beautiful little boys fill that void for me. Holy Crap I'm so grateful for that. I definitly don't feel like I'm missing out. But on the other hand I support my NA family members without judgement. Some of us get into romantic relationships and are able to grow together. That's awesome. I do that with my friends instead. I guess I only know whats right for me. Rather, God only knows. and me too a little bit:) But mostly him.. haha I'm writing what I'm thinking it's silly what goes on in my head.
Thanks for sharing that Alygat,,Im truly greatful that your sharing exactly whats in your mind. I read about transferring addiction onto relationships ,,whereby relationships(especially the romantic ones) become addictions and the addictive logic behaviours that I thought were neatly tucked away ,,safely locked up came back with force and vengence. Well now,,im used to the "groping" mentality and take life on a trial and error basis. So whats there if a relatioship is rotten or scalding hot or whatever ? The Steps are the solution again. And when the romance gets good again,,Im again cautioned; this time the Text warns me to be careful in the good times too. And most of all what I like is the hint in the Text that relationships can be a terribly painful area because I tend to fantasize and project what will happen. Ive always felt emotional release and freedom when I write,,especially thoughts. thats the Great Legacy,by the Grace of God that my sponsor of that time ,Tom,with whom I worked the Steps gave me. Theres a lifetime of security in that,,so Il use the writing,at least just for today !
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
YOu're right, that's another thing! Whenever there is romantic feelings those crazy expectations and projections come up. I know this because even when I have a crush on someone and they call me I start doing that! It's silly and it's just what we do!Thank God I have a support group to admit things to. Even when I try not to I do it I do anyway! Sounds like obsession... hmm that rings a bell. RED FLAG. And that's only when I have a crush so...... Just for today I will give my HP the opportunity to mold me in His image.
I think we tend to equate having a relationship as an essential to becoming acceptable members of society. i deduce this after reading and thinking about the many,many posts here about the nature of relationships and the problems and challenge they bring in their wake. While it maybe good for my ego to claim experience of living a relationship and then proclaiming I worked the Steps in that context there however remains the fact that nowhere has it said in the Basic Text that I must be in a romantic relationship to be called a recovering addict. I say this because that is what many posts seem to imply,,the message seems to be "if you are not in a (romantic) relationship then you havent experienced social acceptability and therefore cannot be callled a truly recovering addict". Well,,the fact of the matter is that the Text clearly says that "SOCIAL ACCEPTABILITY DOES NOT EQUEAL RECOVERY". Which means I dont have to equate being in a (romantic) relationship with living the program".
Dear Raman, why do you feel that sharing about relationships and how we each have tried to apply the program on our relationships is just a claim to bolster ego?
Is it ok to comment such things about others' shares by attributing our own judgmental conclusions and unreal motives to what the others might have shared?
I would like to know who above in this thread has shared like you imply that one has to be in a romantic relationship to be a completely recovering addict... as far as I can see, it's only you who seems to be sharing something about that...
I had to express this because I log in here for fellowship nourishment and what I find is insensitive comments. Can't we simply say "thank you for sharing" and just share our experience, strength and hope without feeling the need to judge or put down what others have shared? Is that so difficult for us to practice?
Some of us might have had painful past experiences in relationships, believe me I do too... but that doesn't mean that we need to scorn at members who sharing their gratitude, joy and blessings that marriage and love has brought into their lives. I strongly believe that we addicts are very much capable of feeling happy for others, genuinely.
I know that, as an addict, my mind tends to judge everything that everyone shares at a NA meeting or at these NA forums, attributing weird motives to what others are sharing. I still end up doing that at times. But that doesn't mean that I have to believe in all that and act out on it.
I request, no, beg, members to respect what the others share here, and refrain from commenting, misinterpreting or wrongly attributing negative connotations and motives behind what others share. That's not why we are here in NA for - to summarise what everyone has shared and comment as to how I think that everyone is wrongly thinking/feeling/going about their recovery.
-- Edited by Tahir at 15:19, 2009-01-07
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Sometimes, someone says something that sounds really profound in a meeting somewhere and it gets taken as gospel and makes it around the world! LOL
Nowhere does our literature make any such suggestion.
The only way I learn to have healthy relationships is to have relationships and learn from them.
When the pain gets great enough, I surrendered, early on. I surrender now before the pain becomes great but that was a process and there are still some areas in my life where I'll get pretty uncomfortable before I'm able to surrender.
Would early recovery be a great time to focus on self and building a foundation in recovery? Absolutely! That said, sometimes relationships happen and they can be learning experiences as well... As long as we don't use, we'll be OK.
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"The truth doesn't change based on my inability to stomach it". - Flannery O'Connor
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