I am struggling with this concept right now. If you read some of my previous posts I often fear the punishment of God. I grew up Southern Baptist and still hold on to my foundational beliefs. However, I am having a hard time grasping the concept that God continues to stick by us when we keep making the same mistakes- sometimes even planning to make the mistake. I am just interested in how you all came to find your god of understanding....
Awesome topic! I, too, came from Southern Baptist roots. Actually, root, trunk, branch, and leaf... I was the chairman of deacons in my church, licensed to preach, and attending Southern Theological Seminary when I walked away from it all in 1983. Though I've never returned to the church, my beliefs were well formed, whether I could live them or not. For years I beat myself and carried a load of guilt and shame around. Partly why I used so much was that I felt I had let God down. When I got clean my concept of God was also of a righteous, judgemental and condemning God. I struggled early on. I could accept that God was infinitely merciful and forgiving, but I couldn't forgive myself. This is how I finally dealt with it: I decided just for today to focus on God's unconditional love and goodness, his mercy and grace, and His kindness and favor toward me. I would just not think about those other atributes until later, and guess what...later never came. I know that the God of the bible is righteous, judgemental, holy, etc. but somehow all those characteristics paled to insignificance in light of His love and grace and mercy. Much later in recovery I heard about a method of determining a God of my own understanding that I like very much. I heard to take a piece of paper and draw a line down the center. On the left side list all those "scary" parts of God's nature: Holy, Righteous, condemning of sin, etc. On the right side list all those attributes of His "softer" side: His grace, mercy, unconditional love, kindness, etc. When you are finished, tear the paper down the middle and throw the left half away. What you have left is a God of your own understanding. This is, unknowingly, pretty much what I had done on my own. It worked for me then and is still working for me now almost 6 years later. One last thing, what does unconditional love really mean? To me it means that God loves me perfectly and that there is nothing I can to to make Him love me any more... or any less. He loves me perfectly, completely, and UNCONDITIONALLY. Hope this helps you. Keep coming, keep growing. Dan H.
-- Edited by dan h at 23:59, 2008-08-27
-- Edited by dan h at 00:01, 2008-08-28
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"With a sweet tongue of kindness, you can drag an elephant by a hair." ~Persian Proverb
"a God of my understanding". To me that meant that I had to create a deffinition of a higher power that I could work with. It was suggested that I could "borrow someone else's until I could find my own". But I was able to create one for me. When I was a child (6-16) I was an althete. From 6-13 I was an AAU swimmer and my parents we very involved with it. I grew tired of swimming 4-5 hours a day every day so I decided to play football at age 13. My father disapproved of this even though he went to college on a football scholarship. He never went to any of my football games (or ice hockey, track, or gymnastics events). Of course I felt badly all the other kids (or most of them) fathers were there.
What's this got to do with my HP? I see my higher power as my spiritual father that sits in the football stands of life, cheering me on to score great things. He puts coaches in my life (one after another) constantly, all I have to do is be teachable. "When the student is ready the teacher will appear". <----that is probably the truest statement that you'll ever hear. The only problem is that my higher power (whom I choose to call "God") is only in those football stands of TODAY! He can't be with me when my head is in yesterday or tomorrow (next month, next year...) only today. So if you're having a hard time finding your HP, ask yourself if you are "In Today"?
my God,,I always thought that the Brahmin-Hindu religion I was boen into was toughest. One has to be veg,,learn scriptures,,do worship for self and others,Meditate,,,and the most difficult was the many Gods and Godesses one had to choose from for a personal diety... funny nuff,,,after 14 years of using grass,,alcohol,,tabs,,smack ,,opium and LSD,,I was amazed and relieved that the Steps said the same thing.. I'm gald that my right to a God of my undetstanding is total and wothout any catches,,, thanks for letting me share..
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
I used to write God hate letters before I ever found recovery, because I thought it hated me so I sure enough was going to hate it back.
My first sponsor ever, almost a decade ago, told me to mentally visualize all of my God beliefs on a chalk board...then erase each and every single thing, wash the board with a sponge and make it completely cleaned off. Then simply pray to someone else's understanding of God for my own beliefs to take on their own shape.
So I borrowed Diane's God, she was a residential tech at the half-way house I was in at the time. I loved her zest for life, her laugh, and how empathetic she always seemed to be. So I prayed: Dear Diane's God (I literally said that)...and I asked it to help me find my own understanding.
My understanding started with nature. The serenity in sitting in the woods, observing the insects, basking in the beauty of the natural I found something I could use. I found a feeling. From that feeling stemmed some questions, so I prayed to find the knowledge I seeked. Next thing I know books start finding me: literally. A friend of a friend gave me one. A friend found one at a rummage sale. My mom bought me couple. I read these books and found things that rang true in my own soul, and I knew.
My grandsponsor used to talk about the wind being a very good higher power for beginners: you can't see itbut you can feel it, sometimes you don't even know it's there, yet other times you can't deny it's presence - like when it's uprooted a tree!
-- Edited by ItsAllGolden at 23:09, 2008-08-28
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"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." ~Oscar Wilde~
Fabulous Golden,,, Nature truly has been my Higher Power too,, Earth,Air,Wind,Sky and Fire are the Five Elements and make up nature and I love the concepts of Mother Goddess,,Mother Earth,,Guiding Mother etc.
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
I found my god slowly, I started depending more and more on him as times in my life worsened.
Then the last time I got locked up and ended up in a real bad prison, Xmas eve around 1995 or so I was thrown into the hole , the cell was filthy and drab, the walls started closing in on me first time I had ever felt like I was about to lose my mind.
I layed on the hard steel bed, yes I cried this was the end I knew it had to be one way or another I was done, and I started to pray. As I lay there hopeless lost and beat down physically mentally and spiritually a voice came out of the air and started talking with me, then I REALLY thought I was losing my mind LOL.
So I had a conversation with what and who I call my higher power, Jesus Christ and God, my spirits rose during that conversation and I was told that I had had enough and it was time for changes to start happening.
Well a few years later they did , it took time and here i am today, a free man I have not been locked up since then, i have so much today compared to that day and I know that when i walk I walk along with my higher power and he carrys me a lot less now thru this life, we work together as a team but he is my captain .
Jesus Vini,, I had an almost similar experience. 1987, treatment centre, dark room. There I am.. wriggling from the pain and crazed out of my head. Then I shouted "F!@# you God,," After sometime i shouted "where are you ?" And then it happens. I completely blank out. Then next sensations im aware of are= my chest rising and falling in gentle breaths and then the Great White Light that i see That was God I think,,, Lighting up my mind as like i was walking up a hill and when i got on top there was this Great White Golden Light,,, the pain was gone,,, been gone ever since. Each time im back in pain,,I try to cxonnect with the Great White Light again. Yes sure,, the Sun did shine in my backyard that day !
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Thanks for that share Raman I know I am not alone.
Raised Catholic went to perocial school 5 years hated the God they taught to me hated the mean nuns and priests, hated not feeling like I belonged in that school my parents forced on me, hated the way other kids teased and taunted me and everyone laughed even the teachers, I hated the whole scene all the wy down to the uniforms they made us wear.
I hated everything including myself.
My higher power taught me through devine intervention to start caring about myself and less worrying about how much I hated everything, including myself.
I was a criminal a thief and a liar I was such a fool , still think foolishly at times but where I get put in checked is when I check in with my higher power and get guidance to do whats right, feels good to do right I never felt good about the things I did, though I was addicted to the adrenaline rush of strong arm robbery just like I was addicted to the rush of crack cocaine or slamming down 10 beers.
I'm still a junky I love finding gold but thats just good clean fun and that has been life changing for me to have to deal with the frustration and vigilant work it takes to persevere and not give up and i have been out 2 hours away from home and equipment fails and I look up to the heavens and say Not again Lord PLEASE, then the equipment starts working once I calm down LOL, weird stuff happens when I turn it over and let God decide.
My obsession to use has been lifted when i was using or trying over and over again to stop i couldn't get past that obsession and until I began to work with my higher power on this nothing changed, when I began to believe that a power greater then me and my addiction could take this from me things began to happen I became less obsessed with using I realized that if I could rid myself of the things inside that I hung to then I would also lose the need for drugs in my life so I worked hard to be honest about EVERYTHING that was going on inside of me I became an open book I took the risk and told it all and let myself feel what I had been hiding from for so long. Now I seldom even think of using its not an option its not even considered that is such a relief .
Higher power is pure love, whether we deserve it or not its there for all to receive if theres a desire just have to open up to it.
Well, I'm glad to know I'm not the only "crazy" here that's talked to God and had God talk back! One of the last times I used, wasn't trashed or anything, I'd went outside to gaze at the stars. Looking upward so long I began to wonder and I simply asked God, "What is all this?" A few moments passed while my mind was completely stilled and then came this voice, "Do you really want to know?" Blown away and knowing I was crazy or my mind was making this all up for it's own amusement, I said, "Yes I'd really like to know." It told me something to the effect of "It's for you to decide."
Back and forth went the conversation from there for what seemed like a really long time. Finally I thought, maybe this is God. Trying to be sneaky (I thought) I asked it what it was - fully knowing in my head that I wouldn't make up the voice of "God" at this point, and totally expecting it to reply with some lame remark such as I am God. or Jesus. Or Buddha. Or something I was familiar with. So I said, "What can I call you?" It replied, "You may call me Cosmos." That was like the personal "kicker" - that's when I knew, this is really tripped out and weird.
Later after I got clean, I was praying and it started talking back to me again. I was telling it how I couldn't do this, I couldn't stay clean. It started in again, reassuring me. Then it said something to the effect of you will be able to save people's lives. I burst out crying telling it I couldn't even save myself. Then it just said something like you will and it hasn't spoken with me since, at least not like those times.
I don't share that with people for the simple fact that I don't want people to think I'm a nutcase...but you guys were being so honest about it, I get tired of keeping things to myself out of fear. So I shared!
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"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." ~Oscar Wilde~
Fab share Goldie,, the only ones that thought I was crazy for believing in God are the EGO people. and EGO simply means E= edging G= God O= out !!! Frankly theres been times in recovery,,, when Ive quite simply said out loud "ok now God,,, !@#$ off ,,, I can manage from here !" Its when my life got unmanageable again because of that attitude did i turn back to God again... As of this,,, just for today i cinciously,, and of my free will and volition choose God >>> which can mean G= good O= orderly D= direction
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
I also was brought up in such environment where I was instilled fear of God in such a way that I imagined God to be a vengeful and angry punisher all along...
When I was introduced to the G-word again in NA after many years of rejecting God as I understood God while growing up, I was very confused too. I did not like that NA again talks about God initially.
That's when the words "Power greater than my addiction" as expressed in Step Two appealed to me a lot. And then, while reading our literature as a newcomer, I came upon this part where it mentions that each of us is free to understand our Higher Power in our own way. That the only suggestion by NA was that this Power be loving, caring and greater than myself. In the beginning, I was not able to open my mind that I can suddenly start perceiving God as loving and caring now after what I have perceived God to be for the first 30 years of my life...
That's when I was told by my Sponsor that anything that has a power to help me stay clean, and support my recovery could be my Higher Power. That's how it started. The first experiences of a Power greater than me in my early recovery started with my parents who supported me, my counselor who had the best intentions for my wellbeing, the NA meetings and the members who were just happy that I show up at these meetings, and were overjoyed when they heard that I had not used that day.
Slowly, over a period of time, my understanding of my Higher Power grew, to encompass everything and everyone, everywhere, at all levels of existence, after trying to live the program over the last few years. Today, this program has gently led me back to the same God whom I feared and despised all my life, but I don't see Him/Her/It the same way as before. Today, I know for sure that God's love for me is complete and unconditional, that there is a loving, caring and compassionate intention of my Higher Power behind everything that happens in my daily life. God's love for me doesn't diminish or increase based on my good deeds or wrongs. God's love for me just is, complete with no strings attached. Thanks to the NA program, I get to see, hear and feel my Higher Power at work both within and around me, through everything and everyone. What once seemed some kind of supernatural impossibility has become very real today in my life, with the help of this program...
Another significant aspect that impacted me strongly from our literature is where it says - the point is that it works for you, whatever understanding you develop on God. I came to realize while trying to apply my third step that I need to trust my Higher Power enough to be able to surrender, and for that I must really have an understanding of God based on where I truly stand, honest with my thoughts, feelings and attitudes towards the word God at that moment. This helped me keep it all simple, and take it one step at a time, instead of trying to impose a concept of a God that is way too much for me to deal with... lol...
The best way forward for me was to try to open my mind to a possibility of a Higher Power around me, in various situations, in other people who can help, to start with. I kept doing this, which in the course of its time, led me to grow and evolve more and more in my understanding of my Higher Power and how that Power works for me...
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
I know a lot of people that had difficulty with the "God" part. Some recovering addicts I know see God as the NA fellowship.
Others, with the help of addiction councillors, have used stuffed toys to signify God. They practice talking to the toy to overcome the sense of vengence they believe that "God" has.
Others, still, use a paper bag in the corner of the room. They write God on the front of it and then put little notes into it about how they are feeling and questions that they have about how to move further in their recovery.
After some practice the spiritual side of NA takes over for them and all of the ones that took baby steps at first now know a loving God of their understanding.
The foundation for our recovery is the realization that we, on our own are unable to make choices in life that are healthy and responsible. Through recovery, we learn new ways of dealing with things and new ways to look at stressors in our lives. I would seem logical that at the start of recovery, we are starting with nothing. It is like taking a big eraser and starting to change everything about how we act and think. I do not think that it would be unusual to put our preceptions of God into the waste basket as well.
Kathleen
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Yes, I bought a ticket on the crazy train.....Good thing it was a return ticket.
and that has been life changing for me to have to deal with the frustration and vigilant work it takes to persevere and not give up and i have been out 2 hours away from home and equipment fails and I look up to the heavens and say Not again Lord PLEASE, then the equipment starts working once I calm down LOL, weird stuff happens when I turn it over and let God decide.
