The last few days have had me thinking. It all started with another meeting about God's Will versus self-will. If we are encouraged to have a God of our own understanding, why are we not encouraged to practice the spirituality of our own understanding? Depending on my personal beliefs of a HP, I might believe slightly differently about spiritual principles. It seems to me that regardless of our personal beliefs about our HP, we are all expected to practice the same spiritual principles. I don't know if I'm making any sense. If anyone understands what I'm trying to ask, I would appreciate some guidance or an explanation. Maybe I'm zeroing in on something I can later use to justify my actions. I'm seriously curious about this though.
I share your situation of having different spiritual beliefs than the majority of NA members in my area. Sometimes it makes me feel a bit lonely. It could be an excuse to feel different or excluded, but it doesn't need to go there.
Oftentimes the spirituality portrayed in our literature is offensive to my beliefs. The spirituality spoken of in meetings is sometimes offensive as well.
I learn through my step work and other pursuits to have compassion for and acceptance of others. I take the spirituality of the program for what it is: suggestions that are very helpful and save lives. I learn what I can and then I read my own spiritual literature. Thankfully, I have a sponsor who encourages me to look in all areas of life for spiritual lessons and guidance.
I don't usually have a need to express the details of my beliefs in a meeting, although I have touched upon them and have received no negative response. I will occasionally discuss my beliefs if someone asks.
Powerless, you are free to pursue and express your own spiritual beliefs. Even though our program presents only one version of spirituality, there most certainly are others. You can follow your own path and have recovery, too.
Powerless, it is my understanding that our Higher Power, Sponsor, Homegroup etc can be different, of our own choice, but the suggested program that has worked on many addicts in NA is the same. Again, the way this program works for each of us might be different. For me too, personally, there are a few things (two or three) that I don't fancy too much in NA as a whole. But I take what I need and leave the rest, again suggested by the NA program.
I read a lot of spiritual literature too, and actively practise many of the principles that I picked up from spiritual paths other than NA, and it helps me immensely to grow, no doubt about it, like currently, I've been exploring Tao, and believe me I'm able to experience the amazing concepts of this spiritual path only due to a foundational understanding rooted in the 12 Steps.
For me, the spiritual principles of NA recovery are basically 12 as our Basic Text, White Booklet and IP #1 says - "These are the principles that made our recovery possible..." - the 12 Steps. Living them in my daily life is what the NA program is all about for me. There might be many other spiritual principles, countless, as part of the overall NA program, but what I need the most to stay clean and to continue to recover are these 12 spiritual principles, the steps...
I strongly believe that spiritual principles of any discipline or path can never be in conflict, only dogmas and rituals have the potential to conflict with each other. I only need to open my mind, alter or readjust my perception to find that it all conveys the same, even seemingly contradicting principles. It's usually my limited understanding or awareness that leads me to develop a misinterpretation about all these principles and thus seem to contradict each other. For example, what one spiritual school might call sacrifice, another school of thought might seem to call codependency if I try to understand it on an intellectual level (thinking). But only when I try to apply these principles and experience (feeling) the results do I realize that both the principles are a truth. But eventually the wisdom to know the difference between sacrifice and codependency, only the 12 steps of NA can give me
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Why would you even think of using your "own" sprituality? Hasn't doing things your own way caused you enough pain? "The God of our understanding" is necessary to maintain the non religeous identity of the program. but it is dangerous to stretch that into a ticket for altering the message to suit what you percieve to be your own personal needs. My "this is my disease talking" alarm would sound LOUD. The 12 steps are the solution. They are proven. Why mess with a good thing?
Why would you even think of using your "own" sprituality? Hasn't doing things your own way caused you enough pain? "The God of our understanding" is necessary to maintain the non religeous identity of the program. but it is dangerous to stretch that into a ticket for altering the message to suit what you percieve to be your own personal needs. My "this is my disease talking" alarm would sound LOUD. The 12 steps are the solution. They are proven. Why mess with a good thing?
Avid, we are not necessarily referring to our own self-created spirituality. There are spiritual paths that are not the Judeo-Christian ones presented in our literature. We didn't make them up to suit ourselves! Many have been in existance for thousands of years.
Another point to consider is that not everyone believes in one god. Not everyone believes in a god at all. However, our literature assumes that we all share the belief in one god.
for me the easiest way has been to stay away from religiousness,, God to me is= FORCETHATKEEPSMECLEANANDSERENE!!! I am an Ecletic,, which means I take the best each system has to offer,,, after a lot of study and eperience i ve understood that the Karma Principle,, the cornerstone of the religion i was born is,, is a Universally Accepted Concept for Right Behaviour and thinking and action,,, after all didnt a Great Master say "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU !!!"
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Blithe Spirit wrote:Another point to consider is that not everyone believes in one god. Not everyone believes in a god at all. However, our literature assumes that we all share the belief in one god.
Well, you just pointed out one aspect I don't fancy much about in NA
In fact, there are explanations in It Works How and Why, and also in the SWG to soften this issue, but nevertheless, I know of a couple of 12-step fellowships that were born in the last 2 decades where the word God has been completely replaced with the words "Higher Power" and "A Power Greater than us", and also referring our Higher Power in the masculine form has been eliminated. Now, personally, I don't have a problem with the word God as it suits my understanding, but I don't think any 12 step fellowship can be tailored to suit a majority and in the process exclude a few addicts who might find recovery in NA. I personally know of an atheist member who is 8 years clean in NA who had developed a reluctance to even open his mind to our Third Step as it is worded and the other steps that follow with the word God, for 5 years of his recovery. Now, he is able to work all the steps but not without customising the wordings of the 12 steps so that it includes him too
We, the majority, might easily speak on length how these minority members must adjust and perceive the program in a particular way and still be a part of the group. But let me tell you, this is easier said than done. The first things that my Sponsor told me comes to my mind - one has to go through an experience to be able to relate to another's similar existential problem, that you don't know anything about it unless you've been there. I have seen this member's struggle over the years first-hand since he was one of those members who never gave up hope on me when I was a chronic relapser over 4 years in NA, and has spent a lot of time and energy with me, day after day over those first 5 years. There were times when I would get so frustrated that he is not able to make a minor adjustment and just move on with stepwork. The fact is I could not possibly understand what he was going through, where he comes from, what it is to be him! I was comfortably embracing the program since it suited me well But I've spent a period in my recovery witnessing him wondering why our literature seems biased in these contexts serving, no doubt, most of us, the majority, but not all? What if I was one of those in the minority? Why not be all-inclusive so that no addict no matter who, what and from where that addict is, can find hope and freedom in NA?
-- Edited by Tahir at 01:16, 2008-01-08
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
theres nothing the matter with honest doubt,, athst how we get Gainful Insight !! We recieve Guidance to the extent we honestly share our apprehensions and confusion,.
All said and done I live in a land that has all major faiths and in the course of my recovery have been able to experience each and every one at different levels,, and yes India is a land where religions from the Middle East, especially Islam and Christianity peacefully coexist with religions from here like Hinduism,Buddhism,Jainsim,Sikhism,Zorastrianism,and also a large following for atheism,, behind all this religiouness is one common theme,,, in their best moments the religions seem to be saying 'LOVE ALL AND SERVE ALL"
so just for today I will take the best and leave the rest to those more qualified to handle it !!
-- Edited by Raman at 05:17, 2008-01-08
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
God of my Understanding Vs, Spirituallality of my understanding.
Hi everyone,
My names an American name and I am an American born in the Bay Area, in Northern California. I am German and French growing up in an affluent town that is now a n extremely affluent City. I have traveled out of the US.A. abroad many times in my youth and lived in such places as ALaska, Hawaii. The reason I am saying this to you all is to confirm that I have been around a bit. Running with the Lowest of low to the Highest of the High in Society.
Let's take this town, city, country, U.S.A. all of it, not one bit being left out was founded upon God. Upon Christian principals and Christian values. In 1963 when President Kennedy was assasinated. The Pledge of Allegance was removed from every public school in the USA. Our country has started into a spiral going downhill ever since. I was here, I was witness to and involved in the Rebellion against our parent's, I was a part of the Hippies movement, Freedom of Sex, Bra Burning, Women's Equal Rights, pot smoking, alcohol, reds, yellows, acid, riding with my boyfriend a Hell's Angel. But the Nation was changing, it was becoming more liberal and more money oriented.
God was rejected in our home by my Father when we were children. He is an ALcoholic and earned money way above normal. Money was the dominating factor in my family growing up. Money is still a driving force. Each sibling out of 4 all drank or used 1 is in Prison most alll of his life, 1 is an alcoholic down on her life, the pther is divorced but remarrying, and me a recovering, remarried, parent to 1 Son that is in and out of court for Alcohol affiliated crimes. My Son had PRivate Christian School, Church. Ran away at 15 years old then off he went. Anyway, no one liked Church when I was growing up because Dad didn't go. Mom couldn't make us because she was a roll over Mom. We ran her over if we didn't want to do it. (I got that treatment all back plus more later on from my own Son) I did see Movies on T.V. during the Holy Seasons Christmas and Easter. Wondering who that man was that loved all of us so much that he came from Heaven to Earth to sacrifice himself on a Cross for Our Sins. SO that we can have an Eternal life with him forever after we die here.
I never really understood THE BIBLE, FAITH, RECOVERY, SPIRITUALITY, MEDITATION, PRAYER, CHURCH, NOT until I got Sober in 1994. COming in back then I hated GOd, it was his fault for everything that happened in my miserable life. All the drinking, running away, the abuse, my addictions, sexual abuse . He understood me! He knows the exact number of hairs on our heads. He created me. Long before the foundation of the World he knew me and He Loved me. Just like he Loves all of his children. GOd is LOVE! He can't hate, there is No Hate in him!
When you say that you don't beleive in God. That strikes me with a quizical giggle. Unless you think that you came from some primal ooze, or that you think we came from the Big bang theory. Your struggle is much like the people had back in the days of the Casesars when they were Worshipping Foreign GOds' Baal. They had many God's, many images like the Golden calf the Israelites Worshipped even after Moses got them away from Egypyt. Parted the Red Sea and they saw all that and Miracles upon Miracles yet they fell back on the Old ways because it takes not only choice but a HEART CHANGE.
Tahir, thank you for your open-mindedness to others who have beliefs that may differ from yours.
Thank you for your most eloquent post.
Thank you for accepting me and acknowledging that although my spiritual path may differ from yours, although it may not be represented in our literature, it is no less valid than yours or anyone else's.
My truth is just that, only my truth that my Higher Power has gifted me specifically to take me through this journey. IT IS NOT THE WHOLE TRUTH Just like my experiences are my reality, so is yours and everyone else's. No one is neither above nor below anyone in creation, and more especially so in NA. Just my two cents
Please continue to share your experience, strength and hope with me, Blithe. I need it because we might not have it altogether, but together we have it all
"I honor the place in you where Spirit lives. I honor the place in you which is of Love, of Truth, of Light, of Peace; when you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, then we are Truly One."
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
the basis of Spiritual expeience in NA is written as Honesty open mindedness willingness and the majority have shared this has worked for them and the belief is that it will work fr any addict anywhere !!
I come from a religion thats never going to be understood fully by others and misconceptions and prejudices are rampant. , many of the major faiths of the world dont even consider my religion to be a religion. my religion consistis of many Gods an Goddesses and is called a pantheistic religion,,, so very totaly diferent form all other religions that are mostly monotheistic,, one God only can be worshipped !!!
so if i had to wallow in differances rather than common factors then how can i recover ?? thats why this is a spiritual and not a religious program, the inference is that religions may vary but the Spiritual Principles are the same for all addicted peope wanting to recover,, thats why they are called the Indispensibles !!! without em we have nothing !!
-- Edited by Raman at 14:33, 2008-01-08
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
theres nothing the matter with honest doubt,, athst how we get Gainful Insight !! 
