NO ONE NO MATTER HOW SICK SHOULD EVER BE BANNED FROM NA I DON'T CARE HOW SICK THEY ARE OR HOW MUCH GOSSIP IS DONE ABOUT A PERSON THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS EVERYONE BELONGS IN NA ONLY A DESIRE RIGHT? THAT HAS BEEN PROVEN DIFFERENT AT LEAST I AM NOT AS SICK TO SAY WHO BELONGS SOMEONE ONCE SAID ALL IT EVER TOOK WAS A DESIRE SO WHERE ARE THE TRADTIONS OR THE PRINCIPLES IN THIS AFFAIR????
"A Safe, Positive Environment helps to bring our Third Tradition to life. A group must create an atmosphere of acceptance and respect for all members.Groups might not have control over who shows up and who engages in disruptive behavior, but they can choose how to react. Strong home groups can show appreciation to members who attend regularly. They can also stand up firmly to disruptive behavior so members feel safe. We make sure that disruptive members know that they are welcome, even if their behavior is not. Groups can Teach Principles to members. The principles of recovery in the steps, traditions, concepts, and all of our literature are great material for group discussion. "
Reprinted from "The NA Way Magazine" April 2007 volume 24 number 2 page 13.
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When I truly believe in something, there will be no need to convince everyone else.
I am sorry that you are witnessing a difficult situation. Please try to remember that although the program is perfect, the fellowship can be flawed. As members, we each struggle with various defects as various times, and that can be painful to ourselves and others.
Here's an example: When I first went to area as a GSR, I thought I was supposed to "win" every motion I carried from my group. I would argue and debate and argue and debate. Was I misguided and annoying? Yep. Was I a bad person? Nope. I just hadn't yet learned about letting go, about doing the footwork and turning over the results.
It sounds like the people you are dealing with are in the process of learning. Perhaps through their process you are learning something important, too.
We believe that the sooner we face our problems within our society, in everyday living, just that much faster do we become acceptable, responsible, and productive members of that society.
Taking it "one step further" than the traditions, I took another look at the concepts. And while ALL of them except 11 kind of fit this topic, in my opinion, Concepts 2 and 3 really hit the nail on the head. Concept 2. The final responsibility AND authority for NA services rests with the NA groups.
Concept 3. The NA groups delegate to the service structure the AUTHORITY necessary to fulfill the responsibilities assigned to it.
Seeing that the responsibility of "carrying the message to the still suffering addict" was not being fulfilled, then yes the group did have the right and the responsibilty to "fix it" with whatever means were necessary. And if this was the first attempt to stop the insanity caused then, yes I would agree it was a bit harsh. However many things have been said and many gentle attempts made to get the point across that what was happening was not ok. Therefore what obviously had to happen, happened. Now some may disagree and thats ok, thats what humans do. But I must say that I feel the decision made was in the best interest for the group as a whole. And THAT is keeping with the traditions.
Gee,,, its like this i think !!! Seeing as this is not an NA Group,,,, sanctions will be given to members who do not maintain decorum. This is a "sharing place" outside of regular,registered NA meeting-Groups !! I for one want this Forum to live on simply because Im sick and tired of the ritualistic,monotonous,mechanical atmosphere of usual "live meetings". (In fact the"live meetings" seem dead to me at times,,,,cause everything is too closely guarded) Here at this Forum i get a look at the "real mind",,, the hidden self thats shy in live settings !! "FLAMING" should never be allowed !!!
We need to learn to disagree without being disagreeable !! I want the moderators and other trusted people in this Forum to be concientitous and take loving and understanding decisions !!!
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
"In the spirit of Tradition Three, we are members when we say we are and posting on this board is a privilege extended to all members of Narcotics Anonymous. However, it should be noted that it is a privilege, not a right, and the abuse of your privilege can, unfortunately, subject you to sanctions, including temporary or permanent loss of your posting privilege.".
To me, the highlighted portion of the above is extreme and in NO Way is keeping with the spirit of the NA Traditions. Permanent loss of posting should apply to only spammers, flammers who are not NA members, or non members that are there to have their fun at NA members expense. No NA member should be permanently banned from any NA message board IMO. There are times when Trusted Servants must act by issuing temporary bans to some members as well as edit or delete some posts but for them to issue a permanent ban IMO should involve the NA Group as a whole.
In the last broadcast Email that John F sent out to the members of this fantastic MIP Group, John acted or seemed to have acted on a group consensus, for the Group and in a responsible manner. I don't really know the particulars, but as I said in another thread, it must have been something really bad that the offending party had committed, for John to have acted the way he did.
Some groups take the above statement I used to open this post, to weed out what they consider as being undesirables or perhaps the addicts that have learned to think for themselves or even they ban addicts that have found recovery in NA but in an uncoventional manner. They solve their problems without having to put up those addicts that question the NA ways, the Steps and Traditions by banning them. Some groups ban addicts for talking of their real life experiences, under the guise of those type of shares not being recovery oriented and some groups allow for addicts to be banned for disagreeing with a moderator's decission too. Some addicts are banned because of the fear some moderators have of being told that they are merely a Trusted Servants and are not to be governing. (It Happens Folks)
The above statement reads all fine and dandy, until it's used for the wrong reasons, then when it is, our very own sick and suffering, those that live life on lifes terms or have a mind to question are banned because these weeds don't fit into a particular NA garden. It happens all the time and that my dear friends has also been my ES&H.
I don't think the trusted servants fell into any of the pitfalls that you mentioned. I think they applied the principles of the traditions to the best of their ability to the situation.
Jeez man,,, here we go again,,, "THE QUESTION TO LIFES ANSWERS!!!" the answers we claim to have leading to many more unanswered questions !!! even though this may not be a group,,, opinion can come disguised as conscience. thats how it becomes con-science,,,, so yea,,,,imho,, we need to temper judgement with humility and sanctions with compassion !!!! Well,,, there i go again !!!
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
I don't think the trusted servants fell into any of the pitfalls that you mentioned. I think they applied the principles of the traditions to the best of their ability to the situation.
I don't think I implied that anyone here fell into a 'pitfall', did I? My previous post spoke only of 'MY ES&H'. Yer not disputing MY, ES&H, are you JasonD? I certainly have accused no one fellow addict of not doing to the best of their ability no matter the circumstance, have I? I applaud the TS's here.
WOW!! It worked! "Brittani" succeeded in what she sat out to do- cause disunity among NA members. It never ceases to amaze me how certain ones have a way of pushing buttons that we as humans are blind to until after the fact. Notice I said "we" because I am aware that I also played a part in the arguments of this post.
Know what ??? When i practice what i preach (share)and preach(share) only what i practice,,, then I will contribute towards a solution,,, especially when so many opinions are flouted !!! indeed the Text warns us that many painful situations arise when we pass off group opinion as dictated by powerful personalities or popularity as a "GROUP CONCIENCE". The most difficult thing for me in my recovery has been that Im usually at the recieving end,,, i always hope that folks I meet in recovery dont have to go thru that and also made it a habit to Meditate on the well being of those that initiate these painful situations !!
-- Edited by Raman at 08:20, 2007-07-04
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
i believe ive been completely guided by the anonymity Principle in all my posts in this topic,,,ive only shared my experiences,,, not a judgement of whats right or wrong,,, for the kind information of all concerned,, till the post just before mine appeared,, i hadnt the faintest idea who that member was or what the so called wrong doing !!! so was it right to reveal,,albeit by cryptic suggestion who that member was as was disclosed by the previous post by another member ???
-- Edited by Raman at 03:26, 2007-07-07
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
So glad that I read a member share something yesterday at another group...
She shared that when we feel that we have been wronged by someone, say I feel that someone's trying to hurt me, and if I feel my emotions are running high as a result, my first impulse is to react, and hit back on that person and do the same that I feel that person is doing to me... that's very typical of an addict like me to do...
But I've been far too long in the program to know for sure that what I put into a situation is what I'll get out of that situation, that when I hurt others, it's actually me I'm hurting the most... if I feel I'm not the problem, then there's no need for a solution... IT'S AN INSIDE JOB!!!
So just like this member shared at the other group, instead of trying to take my pain out on the other by reaching back in anger and hatred, I can surely learn to take my pain to prayer and meditation, and learn what I need to learn from the situation in a more queiter way as the situation queitly passes away as well... So I've decided to remove my other posts from here, and would not be posting on this thread again
Today I'm grateful to this member who made me aware through her share that I can be still and be queit, because it needs to be enough that I know and God knows and not for me to make the world know, as she rightly put it.
Peace.
-- Edited by Tahir at 05:16, 2007-07-05
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Thanks for sharing that Tahir, and I apologize to anyone that read my previous post for acting out on my defects. Thats all I will say right now before another defect raises its ugly head- that defect would be "making excuses" and I am so good at it.
... IT'S AN INSIDE JOB!!!
