Sorry I chose to delete this post, as I realized that my motive besides feeling the need to share desperately, also reflected some unhealthy and undesirable intent that was not ok for my personal recovery...
-- Edited by Tahir at 15:55, 2006-09-01
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Thanks Dalin, so true what you said... My personal recovery depends on NA Unity... Made a lot of sense what you shared... I needed to hear that... Hugs and Love...
-- Edited by Tahir at 16:25, 2006-09-01
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Wow, that's a cool new avatar you've got, dalin of Nataraja ~ the eternal cosmic dance... That's my favorite spiritual image... I have an antique piece of art of the same which is one of my prized possessions apart from a sandalwood art piece of Buddha meditating in the flame of love...
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Yeah,, in our home group the other nite,, the member who chose this as home group did not vote or anything,,, just expressing his concience whether a certain Prayer was good for us to recite or not in the meetings !!!
Its a simple issue,,
in this group we start with Serenity and close with the addicts Prayer and then the third Step Prayer of NA !!!!
Some want to addicts Prayer moved out for whatever reasons but most of us in the group love it so we want it to stay !!!!
So,,,,,, the debate goes on !!!!!,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
this certain Prayer inst 'OFFICIALLY APPROVED BY NAWSO!!!"
But here in Bangalore the Fellowship was attracted to introduce it in our meetings over 10 years ago and it has stayed and thrown Incredible Light in many of our ongoing recoveries !!!!
At first I was appaled but Truly at that time i wasnt fond of any prayer at all !!!
But HP saw to it that i did not walk out when that Prayer was recited by other addicts in the meeting,,,,,we live in mutual respect of each others beliefs !!!!
Then one fine day when i was in real turmoil,, i said to myself to recite that Prayer and immediately knew the source of the other members sense of purpose !!!
All in all that Prayer is very simple and I want to share that with you all,,, without any motive for you to approve or not !!!
it says =
God Bless all the addicts,
wherever they maybe !!
Bless those unfortunates who are most in need of recovery,
look upon them with compassion and mercy
bring them all into this wonderful Fellowship
that only thru You they may help themselves ,
as You have helped us and thousands of others,
Bless those who are clean today
Give Grace to those who are on their way !!!
But God please show compassion and mercy to those who may never come !!!!
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
The issue at hand was not what I shared about, Raman. It was not the problem. The way the proceedings transpired at the group meeting was the problem. The issue being a discussion on what prayers to be adapted for our recovery meetings or what can be served, tea or coffee was not my concern.
And yes, when this new member wanted to share something, and was informed that this is a homegroup meeting, he moved away acknowledging the fact that then he can't participate since he was not a homegroup member clearly. Why the need to coax him back by convincing him to identify as a homegroup member later? Would the same have been done if he had an opposing view to the one who wanted him to share on the issue?
Anyway, I can also present a hundred reasons why Serenity Prayer or the Third Step Prayer or the Just For Today affirmation or The Gratitude affirmation is always better and widely followed in NA, and why we can stick to them... I can also go on and on why I feel this Addicts' Prayer does not reflect NA's principles well and blah blah blah... But my spirit is not inclined towards doing so it seems, even if I would want to...
so, respecting others beliefs doesn't mean one has to condone or endorse those beliefs by submitting to it... Taking a personal dig at any individual's stand is aspiritual... We don't need to condemn another for their beliefs and stands... We can express our conscience when our turn comes and listen to others' when they speak, with mutual respect, as each individual conscience emanates from their HP's will for them...
I have personally indulged in many self-righteous trips... to have it my way in NA service... grateful that I did so... been there... done it... picked up what my HP wanted me to pick up from those experiences... AND HAVE MOST IMORTANTLY MOVED ON...
Today I wholly realize the truth of the saying "To each their own". Just as my experiences and beliefs are my reality, so it is for others. There experiences and beliefs are their reality too. HP does not give what we cannot handle. He/She reveals to each according to their nature and their existential standing. So no one is above or below anyone. The principle of anonymity reaffirms this truth that I have come to realize. Unity, NOT UNIFORMITY. The beauty of the NA program revolves around the principle of "Live and let live"...
Hugs, Love, Light ~ Tahir.
-- Edited by Tahir at 08:44, 2006-09-06
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
But HP saw to it that i did not walk out when that Prayer was recited by other addicts in the meeting
Please explain to whom you are referring this about and whether is it healthy to do it? You mean to say that the member who walks out as she doesn't want to be a part of this particular prayer, her HP is not with her and guiding her well? Or are you saying that your HP is wiser than hers?
She has let go off all the conflicts with you, Raman, and has moved on with her life. Please let go of her too, and keep her or her religion according to her first name out of the discussions...
And yes, it was not an Area Meeting we were in, but a homegroup meeting... And as such we were never discussing or CAN'T even if we want to what the area and all the groups should pray, prayer being the issue at hand... Why should I drag all the area into the issue? For greater support for my cause? Why plagiarize an issue that was discussed only at the level of our group?
-- Edited by Tahir at 09:20, 2006-09-06
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
I had removed the post within one hour of sharing it here, but it seems I can't prevent what our HP has in store for me, and for everyone involved...
I'm DONE posting on this topic.
Over to the care of my Higher Power...
Hugs, Love, Light ~ Tahir.
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
This is what Im saying and have shared ,, its me Im talking about,,,
I remember how I stayed and allowed them to say the Prayer,, but did not say it with them then !!!
Where In my post did I refer to your wife ????
Come on point that out !!!
And as for the newer home member,,, I did not know which "SIDE"
he was on,,, whatever side he was on,, I just felt he needed a canhce to share,,, and as I know him for many years,,, i know he is shy thats
why I encouraged him !!!
And at that moment,,,, he shared not cause I asked him to but because the chairman of that meeting gave him the nod !!!
Just want to say also that you too need to hear that the Group had a concience that all three prayers would be said in the meeting,,, one at the beggining and two at the end !!!
But it is you who has gone against that because each time you chaired a meeting you have said only the Serenity Prayer,,,which I think is a breaking of the Second Tradition !!!!
Love and good wishes and hugs
Raman
-- Edited by Raman at 19:40, 2006-09-07
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Most importantly this is not the Forum to settle the issue,,,
it happened at the Group level and any addressing of the issue has to be done at that level !!!!!
According to me you have broken the 5th and the 12th Tradition !!!
Especially the 12th ,,, because according to me you have tried to present me as a controlling old timer ,,, which Im not !!!
Tahir Im sorry to say that you have used this site for your personal aim !!! in your urge to hurt me,,, you overlook the actual ,, and get into things that are not helpful for your or my recovery !!!!!
All said and done I accept responsibilty for introducing you to this site in the first place,,,
thereby setting myself up for trouble and unpleasentness in the form of your outporings !!!
Please note however Im not rattled by all this,,, many times in my recovery Ive had to face these situations and have learned to cope gracefully,,,,
-- Edited by Raman at 02:24, 2006-09-08
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Oh My God, I just don't understand what has happened to you, Raman... And I know I'm powerless over you... over to the care of my HP...
members, when I did share, I shared it the NA Way... and I had to share because I was hurt... and I had to heal... And I strictly followed the principle of anonymity, ever reminding me of principles before personalities...
There's nothing wrong in what I shared, and I read many posts from members all over the world, at many online NA forums that I am grateful to be a part of, who share it too, to move into the solution, for the therapeutic value of one addict helping another... and to heal from that...
I did not even mention one name or even the issue or how I'm related to which member, but it was you who broke anonymity, since you took it personal... And I'm sorry that you felt offended... Even though I cannot change what you think my aim was to share it here, I feel that I have to tell you once again, for the last time, if doing so helps you, that it was never my intention to offend you, why, I shared the same at two more online forums too, where you are not even a member... How would that satisfy my aim of belittling you? NA has thought me that I share if I'm hurting, not dwell in my hurts, trying to work it out alone... I'm grateful that I shared as I got some wonderful suggestions and guidance as to how I can deal with my hurts, by owning them and healing, instead of the petty blame and shame games...
Inspite of all that, I did delete my share here at this particular forum immediately after having posted it, since I thought I wouldn't want to end up hurting someone in a way I wouldn't want to be hurt myself... When I asked myself what my HP would want me to do in this situation, the answer I got was to delete it, and I did just that...
As for my joining this awesome group, I believe my HP led me to this group... I'm sorry that you think that you introduced me to this group... I understand how it is to feel like that... Believe me, I have felt like that when some newcomer who I help in the initial days suddenly thinks in a different way than what I want him to think... Those were very painful experiences for me too, but rewarding and learning experiences.
As for my unpleasantness here at the group, the posts that I have posted till date here and the posts here at this topic, by you and by me, says it all... My HP knows best... You are entitled to your judgments... If nothing changes, nothing changes...
It's sad that you think that I broke so many traditions, my friend...
Well, right now, my defects of character can make me post many vicious things too... but I know that I cannot afford to... for my own personal recovery... Instead, I can practice the principles that I picked up from the program, including from you...
Well, Raman, so let me say... I accept my part in the conflict and I make honest amends to you right now... not by saying I'm sorry, but by trying to change my ways, to become a better human being... to see to the best of my abilities that I don't end up hurting anyone, even unintentionally...
You win, I lose... Live in peace, my friend...
I love you unconditionally, and I'm sure my HP has a very important purpose behind gifting you in my life... I'm grateful to have found you...
Oneness, Compassion, Light ~ Tahir.
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Right on, BigV. So true. It's so easy for me to react to a situation by bringing to use my defects of character as I was always used to doing instead of applying the tools and the principles of the program that has always given me the freedom to be what my HP truly wants me to be...
Whenever I have admitted my powerlessness instead of trying to overpower... whenever I have invited a Loving HP into the situation instead of trying to be God myself... whenever I have surrendered to my HP instead of running riot with my self-will... whenever I have looked at my part and only my part in a conflict instead of blaming and shaming someone else for my defects getting active... whenever I have asked my HP what he would want me to do in a particular situation instead of continuing in my old sick ways... whenever I have promptly admitted my part and made amends instead of denying my part and resenting and harboring ill-will... whenever I have sought my HP's will for me and the power to carry that out instead of pursuing my diseased will for myself and indulging in fulfilling it like I did with drugs for many years... Whenever I practiced all these principles in all aspects of my life... I am in the ebb and flow of recovery, free from the clutches of my disease of addiction... I have had something to offer myself, to newcomers and to still-suffering addicts... IT WORKS IF I WORK IT!
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
if not for these last few posts
