I have been reading and researching there are somethings I can do when it comes to love and there are alot of things I am unable to or unwilling to do.
I think my selfishness is a huge barrier also the lack of trust .
Heres a poem I found your personal comments and insight are welcome.
Love Author Unknown
Love is a friendship that has caught fire. It is quiet understanding, mutual confidence, sharing and forgiving. It is loyalty through good and bad. It settles for less than perfection, and makes allowances for human weakness. Love is content with the present. It hopes for the future and it doesn't brood over the past. It's the day-in and day-out chronicle of irritations, problems, compromises, small disappointments, big victories, and working toward common goals. If you have love in your life, it can make up for a great many things you lack. If you don't have it, no matter what else there is, it is not enough, so search for it, ask God for it, and share it!
before i worked the steps i had no idea what love was.gradualy i have seen that my old ideas were realy screwy,selfish,self centered,hostil etc
and like my sponsor said,just because i wasnt loaded,i still had to change my old ways of thinking.it took a while for my world to get fuc dup,and just because i was clean,it wasnt like the na magic tricks would work without my help.
he said i was sitting in the closet wanting a hotdog,but not being willing to go in the kitchen to cook it.this all comes thru prayer and action.
so keep coming back.the steps we are doing will help.
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dalin a unity means oneity...one god, one fellowship,one sponsor,one program...many gifts
I feel like addicts are especiall good at love.not in forming relationships easily,but having the capacity to be so loving and kind.i dont know if its a sensitvity that makes us vulnerable to chemicals,or that we may have struggled so much in life that we formed compassion.
were just typing on this website and ive recieved care and understanding that i havent gone out of my house for in awhile,and i feel like its always so genuine from people in twelve step lives.its giving and unconditional.its an important shred of humanity i dont see on the news or sometimes places where people are impatient or being selfish.
I'm thinking now that we're so critical and hard on ourselves we can end up doing that to others also, we sorta leech out whats in us?
If we're feeling good about ourselves and not beating us down then maybe we slack up on others, I know i've been really hard on myself these last few years just a miserable wreck really and anything that added to that made things even worse I got to the point of being at the end of my rope and I DUMPED on everyone , mostly those who care about me and my closest friends.
Great topic. Had been an area of amazement and surprises for me in my recovery lately from over the last one year.
As a using addict, I seldom learnt how to express my care and concern for others or show my love for someone or feel loved. I was always an outcast, rejecting and despising love both when I witness it or given it. I had no relationships whatsoever with my parents, brothers, sisters or relatives. The only relationship that I kept was my friendship with my using friends, the common bond of getting and using and finding ways and means to get more being the lifeline of these relationships. I had taken my parents hostage by turning into a parasite, constantly draining them out of their resources and energy. I seldom had a relationship with a girl or woman in my life till I was over thirty.
When I came into recovey in 2004 and after staying 7 months clean, for the first time, I felt special feelings for a woman who was also NA. For the first time, I opened up with this person, allowed myself to be vulnerable, and was able to just be myself without masks or pretensions in this relationship. I was amazed that I am finally able to do this. And I realized that the only way and reason I could have got into a relationship, express, give, recieve and feel love was because I had an active program, the steps, as the leading guidance in my recovery then. I had just worked the steps and was flying high on them. I was undergoing a radical transformation within, as a result of living the steps, that was turning my whole personality upside down, from the scratch. After having worked the 4th and 5th steps, and after being involved in this relationship, suddenly I discovered that love was gushing out of my heart for my parents whom I always resented, for my big brother whom I hated all my life and had attempted to kill him once. I started seeing the good things in him, his virtues, and realized that he did love me inspite of whatever he chose to believe or whichever way he lived. Today, we share one of the best friendships.
I married this wonderful woman who changed my life when I was 10 months clean. Today, we live as husband and wife for more than one and a half year, and I'm grateful to my HP that he gave me the strength and the sanity to love her and to be loved by her.
Let me share this with you now. My wife is elder to me, she is Danish and I'm Indian, she from the west and me from the east, she a christian and me a moslem, Even our cleantime has a vast difference, I'm 2 years clean and she is 11 years clean. We have a hard time understanding each others' mannerisms, culture, the way we speak english means differently in each of our cultures, a small common behavior or approach in my culture is rude in hers or vice versa.
Apart from all this, we do have conflicts in our everyday life. Sometimes, we fight and hurt each other badly thru games of blame and shame and one-upmanship and ego-domination. We let lose our defects of character on each other viciously and ferciously sometimes. In the beginning, everytime this happened, I thought it's over, that we can't live together.
But one thing and the only thing that was common in both of us was our love for each other. And that was enough, and today, we continue to rely and use the power of our love for each other to overcome conflicts and in resolving them in a constructive and healthy way with mutual respect, and above all, by expressing our love for each other constantly.
Today, I realize that we hurt each other, we disagree on many issues and get into these conflicts because we love each other and we are honest in our relationship.
These conflicts, in fact, have been the cause of better understanding and taking our relationship to the next level. Today, we live just like we did when we first met each other. We romance, our lovelife is as intensely passionate as it always was, we regularly commit and recommit ourselves to each other after every conflict. At the end of everyday, we call a meeting of two, where we share the mutual inventory of the day, express our feelings and fears and aprreciation for each other, just like in a recovery meeting, where one shares and the other listens, without interrupting or judging from a neutral perspective. We share using I statements, not using accusatory or attacking language against the other. We own our feelings, behavior and reactions without blaming or shaming the other.
The reason I share all this is to look back at myself and how I lived for 3 decades, and look at where I'm today, and witness the undeniable miracle of my HP and the program clearly in my life. My heart swells with gratitude and joy for all that has changed in me, for what I have become today. And there is no way I would want to be deprived of these gifts that the steps offer me.
What I think I want to share with you all is, my friends, that today, we addicts have such a powerful program of 12 steps gifted by our HP that anything is possible. With the help of this program, we are capable of loving beyond our capacities and capabilities, as much as our HP loves us. Of course, being human, and having this disease of addiction, my defects might get active sometimes, and I might end up acting out on these defects, but I can always get back to the steps, admit my wrongs and mistakes and reconcile by using these behaviors as an opportunity to grow and practice the spiritual principles of NA. As long as we are trying, we are not failing... Just like our disease is progressive, so does our recovery higher powered by the 12 steps...
Thank you all for sharing with me.
Hugs, Love, Light ~ Tahir.
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
im just glad we are here to help each other.my girfreind had two years yesterday.had time before,but relapsed.
relationships can be a painful area for addicts.if im not spiritualy ok,i can bounce right back into character defects.if im not working my steps and living them in my life,well i would be right were i came from.
the 5th step made me aware.if i didnt really work it i would be lost.
thanx for helping me stay clean.
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dalin a unity means oneity...one god, one fellowship,one sponsor,one program...many gifts
Well me and my ex had our final final blowup today i've decided I can't take anymore, she called I told her i'm done and hungup that was hard enough in itself but our conversations go straight to all of her resentments and things i've done that have wronged her. I tried to tell her and explain I was working on things but as far as our relationship that is over indefinetly.
And today i'm good with that.
I love her God knows and today I lift her up to him and out of my life.
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
How inspirational! I am the type of person that does not withold love but at the drop of a hat will run at the sign of conflict or any sign that I might be hurt. It also gives me an excuse to self medicate. I look now and realize that this is one of my greatest faults because it is selfish way to be in control all of the time.
You just commented on the stormy seas of your relationship and how it actually builds to make your life stronger together. I will be reading this post often to remind myself that peaks and valleys are part of a loving and honest relationship.
It's not easy but looking at everything in retrospect this is the best thing that could happen she was not the right gal, the list of negative things MUCH outways the positive matter of fact there were only a few positive things good about us, the negative was a page long, just did'nt want to see all that.
just glad you are here and clean.dont let resentments tword her keep you awake rehashing arguments and dumshit,like i use to do.and if you see me doing the same stuff,please help me unass my head,and keep me out of that self pity comity...you know that poor me...pour me a drink,twist me up a dube,and well go find a rail...
and tell me that god has a perfect woman for me on the other side of the steps.
i am proud of you.it was hell for you to get this far in recovery.dont let resentments eat you.we need you.
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dalin a unity means oneity...one god, one fellowship,one sponsor,one program...many gifts
Sometimes I have realized that there comes a person or two in our life just for a specific purpose of getting us in touch with our emotions and feelings, so that we are prepared and ready for that person with whom we are destined to form a relationship eventually. Once the purpose is accomplished, these persons move on, and so must we.
I'm grateful to my ex-girlfriend who had to be in my life for almost a decade before her purpose was over and she moved on. If not for her, I wouldn't have been able to cope with my marriage and be fair towards my wife now.
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
This certainly brought everything WRONG inside of me to the surface what I HATE is that I hurt her alot of guilt there but at least i'm capable of having some guilt must have a bloody conscounce LOL
MY SPONSOR TOLD ME THEN,, AND SO TRUE TILL THIS DAY,,,
ANYTHING YOU HATE,,,,,,, LET GO WITH LOVE !!!!
LOVE FOR LOVES SAKE,,,,
I DONT KNOW WHY WHEN ASKED ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS,,,, MOST SEEM TO RELATE THAT TO A MEMBER OF THE OPPOSITE SEX,,,,HOMOSEXUALS RELATE THAT TO A LOVER,,,, BUT WHY ?????
IS THAT THE ONLY THAING THAT CAN BE CALLED RELATIONSHIP????
FAR AS I CAN TELL,,,,, THE MOMENT I STOPPED THINKING THAT THERE WAS TO BE A WOMAN IN MY LIFE TO MAKE ME FEEL COMPLETE,,,, IVE BEEN VERY PEACEFUL !!!!
I CAN RELATE BETTER AND FORM HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS WITH WOMEN SIMPLY CAUSE I KNOW I DONT NEED EM FOR MY SELF ESTEEM,,, TO FIX MY BAD FEELINGS ETC !!!!
I BELIEVE TAHT MY RECOVERY HAS GOTTEN MUCH BETTER AFTYER I BEGAN DEVELOPING HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS OTHER THAN THE INTIMATE ONES,,,
LIKE RELATIONSHIPS AT WORK,RELATIONS WITH CLIENTS, WITH MY MOM , DAUGHTER AND OTHER FAMILY,,,,STRAIGHTFORWARD RELATOIONSHIPS WITH MY SPONSOR,SPONSEES,OTHER NAS AND MANY IN SOCIETY AT LARGE,,,,,
THER ARE MANY RELATIONSHIPS THA SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUT ARENT,, LIKE WITH COUSINS,,, IT OISNT THERE YET BUT IM NOT TRYING TO FIX IT !!!!
AND YES,,, IVE STOPPED USING WOMEN IN RELATIONSHIP AS A BENCHMARK WHETHER IM OK OR NOT !!!!
MY SELF ESTEEM COMES FROM DOING ESTEEMABLE ACTS,,,, MOST IMPORTANTLY TO FULLFILL OUR FELLOSHIPS PRIMARY PURPOSE BY WORKING WITH OTHERS !!!
GOD BLESS YOU ADDICTS WHEREVER YOU MAYBE !!!!
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Maybe because it all started with Adam and Eve, not Adam and another Adam or Adam and his father or Adam and his son... lol... just kidding...
But I have noticed, in my experience and also thru many others' experience that men always are fond of opposite sex more than their own... be it wife or mother or sister or daughter or aunt...
Also, in my experience, I have seen that men are more inclined towards being mental, which in our case, being addicts, is very risky as we can't rely on our sick head mostly. And women are emotional, which we do get in touch with, for the first time, thru working the program. To strike a balance between these mental and emotional sides, the masculine and feminine, is possible only when a bond develops between man and woman (which religions, societies and traditions implement thru marriage). And this is the only relationship that is celebrated by all and institutionalised thru marriage. The merger of the yin-yang.
I think sex is a wonderful part of a relationship, a gift of God to humankind to express our love for our loved one in the most intimate way possible, and it is the only act that creates nature's finest creation, a new life. And moreover, just like our body needs sleep and food, it also needs sex. I wonder why everybody's ok with food and sleep, but sex is taboo. It's just that me being an addict abuses everything ~ be it sex or food or money or power or alcohol or a relationship.
Just felt like sharing my experience and perspective. What works for me might not necessarily work for others. And on the other hand, what might not work for me might exactly be the very thing that saves another's life.
-- Edited by Tahir at 17:48, 2006-08-18
-- Edited by Tahir at 17:50, 2006-08-18
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
First of all thankyou all for sharing this helps me get other perspective on things.
My ex emailed me some crap this morning and FOR ONCE I was able to NOT RESPOND OR REACT and that is a wonderful thing let me tell you I am finding peace again just being with me and not feeling that lonely lostness.
I let others know i love them I may not say it enough but they know. Before all they knew was I was going to steal from them LOL not anymore. I spend time with my family when I never used to be able too now I make the effort to be there at least for my Mom every Holiday I spend time now and then with my Father and Sister. I talk to my Aunt now (more like she likes talking to me) she used to avoid me.
I tell them all that I love them my Dads the toughest he WON'T SAY THE WORDS for some reason just was'nt brought up that way but he knows I care.
Love is'nt just some simple 4 letter word is it....
Thank you, BigV, for sharing this with me. Reading your share gives me lots of strength and hope. The miracle of staying clean and being in recovery, has to rub off eventually, on our loved ones too.
I have the same problem with my father. But I keep reaching out and expressing my love for him just like you are doing. Sometime back, he reciprocated finally, to my utter joy and amazement, by saying something so emotional and unnatural for him to express that I cried, tears trickled non-stop from my eyes, the tears of gratitude, love and joy.
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
You know as a boy I had alot of expectations of my Dad and he let me down I tried to not let it effect me but it has and it did. Into my teens I hated my father he was a ragging alcoholic I wanted to kill him so bad for hurting me and my family I held a gun to him once and was going to shoot him for beating up my mom , I was 15 at the time.
And alot of what I am today is him my rages and exactly like his and the lack of emotional maturity I recognize what it is, where I learned it from and it makes me sick knowing this because I HATED IT, that which is now me and it's ruining my life.
For me this is a spiritual (and not religious) Program of revovery from drug addiction !!!!
(to hell with religion,,, i always had a lack of it !!!!!)
The Basic Text is very clear =
SOCIAL ACCEPTABILITY DOES NOT EQUEAL RECOVERY !!!!!
Trying to look good by being married,, having a girlfriend,being in a relationship in order to look good has never worked for me,, ore so in my recovery !!!
No matter what justifications i may come with in order to be in one,,, i dont have to be in a relationship with a woman in order to recover!!!
At age 45,,, ive mellowed a bit,,,,, Im looking at who I really am,,, rather than what I am in relation to others !!!
I too had become just an exyension of my Pa,,, his ideals, his mannerisms and all,,, it was pa that had said that to be complete in life I had to be with a woman !!!
I still have a woman,,, she loves me well and i love the best I can,,, been in this relationship nigh on 5 years now !!!
Yes shes a plus point in my life,,,, after my marriage which lasted all of five years together,,, this is the longest relationship !!!!
But ive learnt over the years in recovery that i dont need her to fix my feelings !!!!
HAPPINESS IS AN INSIDE JOB !!!
-- Edited by Raman at 13:23, 2006-08-20
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
When we work a solid program of recovery, it is impossible for us to remain victims. Part of the healing process is learning to take responsibility for our part of things that happened and accepting the actions of those who hurt us. When we begin to use our skills of empathy and understanding, we let God help us to initiate the forgiveness of those we formerly blamed. We realize they are as sick as we are. This is when we start to heal.
I lost the hate long ago for my father but i've still been using traits ( control , unrealistic expectations,POWER ) that were used on me onto others and thats what i've been focusing on because I know how hurtful and damaging it is.
The cycle of violence repeats itself until broken. The original violence can be in the form of physical, sexual, emotional, or mental abuse as well as a combination of these. The violent reactions come out primarily as power and control issues. Many addicts, whether using or clean, fall into this pattern. This behavior is familiar to them because they were controlled or abused in their past.
I'm not looking for someone to fix me it seems i'm trying to fix others and mold them into what I WANT. Thats not love.
Hi Raman, you are right. Trying to look good or feeling justified, be it thru marriage or even thru sponsorship or service posts in the fellowship doesn't work for me as I'm an addict. Even the NA program works only when we work it, not when we fix it. But I think there is a lot in between trying to fix ourselves thru a relationship and the "no woman no cry" stand. There is a whole lot of honest and healthy ways of relationships in between, that we can learn to have thru our spiritual program of twelve steps, be it with anyone, like you shared about one with your girlfriend now. Recovery is an inside job. It cannot be fixed thru an external fix. But I am always cautious that I don't get carried away by the exaggerated version of this simple truth and fall into the trap of thinking and telling myself ~ "well, since it's an inside job, I don't need the fellowship, the meetings or family or society. If I have something to do with all these people, it's only because I'm trying to fix myself thru them." It is something like me saying since drugs or alcohol might cause me to relapse, I will go live in that part of the world where neither drugs nor alcohol exist.
And yes, also I agree about that NA program being a Spiritual Program. If it was religious, I don't think it would have worked for me... lol... After all, religion is for those who fear God and hell; and Spirituality is for those who love God and have been to hell and back.
And yes, do people really get married to look good??? Wow, that's weird. Funny way of trying to look good, yeah...
Thanks for sharing, Raman, and I'm happy for you and the love in your life. Also grateful to my HP that I found you in my recovery.
Peace and Hugs ~ Tahir. -- Edited by Tahir at 16:08, 2006-08-20
-- Edited by Tahir at 16:14, 2006-08-20
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
BigV wrote: The violent reactions come out primarily as power and control issues. Many addicts, whether using or clean, fall into this pattern. This behavior is familiar to them because they were controlled or abused in their past.
BigV, so true. That was an amazing way of putting things into proper perspective. Where did you get that from? Is it part of our literature? If so, where can I find it in our literature? I would really love to read more on it, my friend.
Thank you so much for posting this. I needed to hear that. Hugs, Love, Light.
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
I read a book by Dr Laura awhile back and she says the EXACT same thing about "Familiar behavior" it's basically learned and sometimes all we know or are comfortable with. Breaking that behavior takes alot of work, constant work when I fall even after knowing whats happening its almost like a literal relapse so much shame and remorse fills me up yet I do certain things over and over again.......
yea,that book hasnt gone thru world yet,it is still being written by addicts,and for addicts,and wont be turned over untill every addict has a copy so we dont have another it works...professinal writers for hire...not all addicts had input.
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dalin a unity means oneity...one god, one fellowship,one sponsor,one program...many gifts
dalin wrote: yea,that book hasnt gone thru world yet,it is still being written by addicts,and for addicts,and wont be turned over untill every addict has a copy so we dont have another it works...professinal writers for hire...not all addicts had input.
My sister in San francisco who is very involved in NA has heard about the book and looks foreward to reading it Dalin
Oh yeah, NA Way Of Life is an awesome book, so extensive and all-encompassing that one can refer it for anything under the sun for a recovering addict. I have referred it often, especially the chapters ~ Relationships, Life-threatening Illness, the Tradition and the Twelve Spiritual Principles chapters. So do a handful of my friends here.
In fact, I placed an order for a couple of copies of the book from the Foundation Group online at nawol.org, but there was no response. They said that they will get back with the exact amount that I need to pay including the shipping charges for my country and then I never heard from them. You have any idea how I can procure a copy of the book, Dalin, other than downloading the ebook from the site. I want a printed edition, or possibly two or three of them, for my friends in the fellowship here who are also avid readers of NA Way Of Life.
-- Edited by Tahir at 07:43, 2006-08-21
-- Edited by Tahir at 07:50, 2006-08-21
__________________
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Yes Tahir,,, my marriage was indeed an attempt at social respectability and trying to look good !!!
I know three simple rules mow for a happy marriage,,, not because i can say to someone getting married what to do,, but I can truly list things one ought not to do !!!
dont act in haste and repent at leisure !!
make sure the connection is physical,mental but most of all a psychic union !!!!
the husband must at all times refer to his wife as THE BETTER HALF,,,THIS "TRICK" IS SOMETHING MANY HAPPILY MARRIED MALES SHARE WITH ME !!!
I know the sun will shine in my backyard someday in relationships with a woman,,,, but right now its dark !!!
Man is it dark now,,im loving a day at a time,,,,but i know that the woman who has been my lover cannot be so for much longer,,, shes not getting a divorce,,, while i went and got mine !!
My sponsor had already suggested talking to her about ending,,,,, bring to my mind the words of a song,,the last lines are,,,
oo,, what do you say ?
what can one say ?
when a love affair is over !!!
God Bless you addicts wherever you maybe,, God bless you with feelings of true self worth !!
__________________
Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Even though I cannot imagine how you would be feeling right now about your relationship coming to an end, I realize that it would be really hard.
I just want to tell you that I love you and you are a wonderful being, cherished and loved by me and many others in the fellowship.
Thank you so much for the useful tips of a successful relationship... he he...
I strongly believe that me and my wife are soulmates (twinflames), so our connection with each other resonates not only to physical, mental and emotional level, but also to a spiritual level.
And also, today I have come to realize with the help of the program that everything happens, even seemingly downright bad things, with a loving, caring and compassionate intention of my HP. As long as I trust my HP and turn over my will and my life over to Him/Her, I have nothing to worry or fear or repent. I embrace all that my HP gives me, be it joy or pain, as I know very well that both are given by my HP as gifts essential for my growth, with no discrimination between them.
My belief is such that my HP doesn't love me any less just because I commit a mistake or even relapse. His/Her love for me is the same at all times, unconditional and total. And this love that my HP showers on me is the foundation of my self-worth. I'm Higher Powered!!!
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
RAMAN My Ex girlfriend was still married when we met she now claims "I" am the reason she divorced him though I hardly believe that ( SHE TALKED ABOUT THINKING ABOUT IT LONG BEFORE WE MET SHE FORGOT THAT PART) i'm sure it gave her an excuse, she was not happy with him. Get out while the getting is good it seems that there is an emotional bridge us men cross and theres no way back once crossed other then to be damned by these women and thrown into a pit of hell LOL.............RAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Conflict can result from trying to change a person or situation that we don't like. And conflict causes stress and agitation, both of which limit our lives. They steal our ability to be open to opportunities for growth and change.
Why is it so hard to accept situations we don't like? The Twelve Step program tells us it's because of our ego. We feel diminished when others don't agree with our plan or our opinion. Our self-worth is tied to other people's reactions.
But we can change. We can let the spiritual program that NA offers inspire us to let others be. We will discover how much better we feel when we're not on the battlefield with our friends and loved ones.
We don't have to have conflict with other people today. We can let others be themselves and do what feels right to them. This way we'll feel more at ease too.
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
But we can change. We can let the spiritual program that NA offers inspire us to let others be. We will discover how much better we feel when we're not on the battlefield with our friends and loved ones.
AMEN to that I pray for that day to come and SOON.......
