Traditional dictionaries define sober strictly in terms of not under influence of alcohol / not being drunk. Some modern dictionaries add secondary definition not under influence of drugs.
The terminology debate raged decades ago long before we had our Basic Text and the voice of NA as expressed through our Group Conscience spoke. I am Clean. Yes I am sober but it's a too limiting term - and addicts using the term sober opens the door for reservations IMO as was and is the opinon of the NA Group conscience. Using the phrase Clean and Sober is just silly as in redundant as in not understanding words and NA's definition of Clean.
I have the disease of addiction, I am not an alcoholic. However I am not an NA Nazi and don't correct people in meetings but rather lead and teach by example and how I speak.
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Work the Steps or Die MF. (My Friend :) Clean One Day At a Time by The Grace of God through The Power of NA
For me, Because 99% of any meetings I make(NA) I refer to myself as being clean and free from active drug addiction.The programs have changed somewhat since I showed up in '84. Up North ,in upstate NewYork where I attended some early A.A. meetings(my first sponsor 84 year old from that fellowship) sharing as an ANDA would have had the oldtimers wanting to tar and feather you. Any talks of "dry goods' drugs ,was definitely frowned on. Here in Pompano Beach Florida in 2012, though I have only made a couple of A.A. meetings before I located NA meetings here, most everyone shared as an ANDA(alcoholic and addict)(WE definitely have different perspective on the disease of addiction and alcoholism) substance abuse other than alcohol was shared freely.I dont find much ostrazation(is that a word??)as such in NA here, people sharing as clean not sober,but have not been here that long.Don ,I know you remember couple years back when WE had the NA POLICE on the site questioning and diminishing many areas of the program.The Clarity statement for 1 ,referring to our 11th Tradition that states "Each of us has our own life,our own words and our own story all adding dimension and color to the message of our fellowship"Do I want to spend time finding contradictions or RATHER like Mike says use the KISS method.....No question for me!, For me ,I share and respect the house Im in. If its A.A ,I am more likely to share as Mike,a member working in Sobriety a day at a time, sometimes maybe just Mike(yes sobriety does mean being sober but for me it spreads it out a little,and thats my stuff and I wouldnt interject myself an ANDA I am an addict!)WE could also look at the 3rd Tradition and 12th steps in the programs,,its where where I find the most difference separation one idea over another, AS an addict I try and carrying the message to other "addicts"inclusive of alcohol.In A.A it is much more drug specific.Im sure these debates will go on with many of the other program debates,but times are definitely changing but our message is always HOPE and our promise freedom from active drug addiction,Im am defintely of the school that my problem is not a specific substance but rather a disease called 'ADDICTION' a physical,mental and spiritual allergy that manifests itself in all areas of my lives(father,son,husband,brother,employee,friend etc)I am also not the NA police, and I personally lean more toward the 11th Tradition in the "IT WORKS' rather than the Clarity format bit being respectful and aware of what ewcomers may be present and not intentionally blurring any messages to the best of my ability...but again thats my stuff. Sharing at H&I meetings upstate WE always SAW many different people thru the facilities coming to NA meetings,all sharing as ANDA'S ,ALCOHOLICS,ADDICTS ETC.,I have learned what I need daily ,thru the years to remain free from active drug addiction,,God centered and teachable.The other stuff doesnt help me,and I am responsible for my own recovery..Good hearing from you guys.............Have a blessed and productive day,you too Candice
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Our purpose is to remain clean,just for today,and to carry the message of recovery.
I got clean in 1984. Back then, there was not a lot of NA around, and most people went to AA and NA. We said clean and sober all the time with no qualms about it. Then the NA language purification movement started and people tried to get people to say only clean, not sober. I don't really give a rats ass what you call yourself. As long as you have a desire not to use drugs today and want to recover from your addiction, I will offer my hand in support.
When I cleaned up, I went to AA for 5 years. I also did a NA Loner Program. And one clear message from both Fellowships was to "be specific".
If i said I was sober and clean in AA meetings then they got crazy with me. And if I used the term sober in NA they too got crazy...
Though I was upset, i figured that the common denominator was those that got crazy were crazy anyways,, AA or NA. And they used any excuse to pounce.....................(who let them dogs in anyway ?).
Then I decided that the best way to stay out of their way was to not give them meat or bone. So I got to behave "Fellowship specific".
Nowadays, if ever i go to an AA meeting (very rare), i use the term sober. And in NA I stick with the "clean and serene"..
That only proves that Ive been restored to sanity, no matter who else isnt !!!!!! And sometimes I think to myself "But for the Grace of God, there go I"
And that's said and done, thank you !
-- Edited by Raman on Sunday 20th of January 2013 03:10:31 PM
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Great comments. I had a harder time doing this in early recovery when I attended any 12 Step meeting I could get to! LOL But over time my brain cleared a little, so now I try to respect the " primary purpose" and local customs of the meetings I attend, though my home group and program of choice is NA.
-- Edited by Archiecat on Thursday 2nd of January 2014 02:39:22 PM
Perhaps I am off the wall here, but I have a conflict when they start criticizing those in NA meetings who identify themselves as alcoholics and then some one will speak out that they are in the wrong place.....and vice versa. I've always told my sponcees that I don't care what meetings they attend just as long as they go to meetings. Whatever keeps them clean. I have took much criticism for this by some people. How can the meetings be so different when it was the AA meetings that got started first and all of the others (NA, OA, CA, GA, etc.) all derived from that 12-Step Program. When we talk about our Predicessors, I first think about AA and am grateful to them for bringing us this Program. The steps are still the same, the traditions are still the same so what the heck is the big deal here? It seems to be that people are getting all hung up over "Words" instead of what the main issue here is and that is that they are clean, sober, serene, etc. and did not have to die due to their disease. Personally, I think that alcoholism is a disease of addiction as a person is addicted and controlled by alcohol and it has made their lives unmanagable but what ever one chooses to call themselves, I am just so grateful that they didn't have to die. They chose LIFE! I know what terminology best describes ME and what I choose to call myself, but when I do go to an AA meeting, out of respect for the meeting....I introduce myself as an alcoholic as when I did drink.....I drank to the point of stupidity and black outs but when I used drugs I used to the point of stupidity but could never pass out. I abused anything that would take me out of myself and make me where I didn't have to feel. That's just me! Many of AA meetings have helped to keep me clean & sober for that day and many of NA meetings have helped to keep me clean and sober for that day. I owe both of them my life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
sober adj.adjective Habitually abstemious in the use of alcoholic liquors or drugs; temperate. Not intoxicated or affected by the use of drugs. Plain or subdued. sober attire. Devoid of frivolity, excess, exaggeration, or speculative imagination; straightforward. gave a sober assessment of the situation. Marked by seriousness, gravity, or solemnity of conduct or character. Marked by circumspection and self-restraint.. Habitually abstemious in the use of alcoholic liquors or drugs; temperate. 8. Not intoxicated or affected by the use of drugs. 9. Plain or subdued: sober attire. 10. Devoid of frivolity, excess, exaggeration, or speculative imagination; straightforward: gave a sober assessment of the situation. 11. Marked by seriousness, gravity, or solemnity of conduct or character. 12. Marked by circumspection and self-restraint. To make or become sober. Variation adj.: soberer,soberest tr. & intr.v.: sobered,sobering,sobers
According to Random House Webster's College Dictionary, "sober" has two meanings: Showing self-control, or not being intoxicated. Culturally, most people use "sober" to describe someone who is not under the influence of drugs or alcohol. While the word "sober" describes anyone not under the effect of drugs or alcohol, it has even more weight in the case of addicts. When an addict becomes "sober," it means he has chosen to stop using the substance altogether. This is a monumental decision and requires enormous physical and emotional strength.
-- Edited by Dustina ILia on Thursday 2nd of January 2014 04:22:13 PM
)WE could also look at the 3rd Tradition and 12th steps in the programs,,its where where I find the most difference separation one idea over another, AS an addict I try and carrying the message to other "addicts"inclusive of alcohol.In A.A it is much more drug specific.Im sure these debates will go on with many of the other program debates,but times are definitely changing but our message is always HOPE and our promise freedom from active drug addiction,Im am defintely of the school that my problem is not a specific substance but rather a disease called 'ADDICTION' a physical,mental and spiritual allergy that manifests itself in all areas of my lives(father,son,husband,brother,employee,friend etc)I am also not the NA police, and I personally lean more toward the 11th Tradition in the "IT WORKS' rather than the Clarity format bit being respectful and aware of what ewcomers may be present and not intentionally blurring any messages to the best of my ability...but again thats my stuff. Sharing at H&I meetings upstate WE always SAW many different people thru the facilities coming to NA meetings,all sharing as ANDA'S ,ALCOHOLICS,ADDICTS ETC.,I have learned what I need daily ,thru the years to remain free from active drug addiction,,God centered and teachable.The other stuff doesnt help me,and I am responsible for my own recovery..Good hearing from you guys.............Have a blessed and productive day,you too Candice
