stupid me.
I went on YouTube, surfin around... Stubled across some stuff about aa and bill w. Video about a letter from some chick Henrietta to some dude Horace, where she writes a few things about his behavior. Followed by lookin at bill ws use of LSD (and at this point I'm pissed he got to claim a spiritual awakening and long term sobriety after using LSD). Next thing you know, I'm on orange papers. WTF?! Now I know-- were not perfect. I'm damn sure each and every one of us has had a distasteful experience with another na/aa member, seen that they are 13 steppin or they're not following traditions.
But I got all caught up and resentful in how the steps had some vague involvement with the oxford group. And started sayin a few things about brainwashing and cultism at a few meetings.
So here I am, and I stumble across this video, Chris r and a 45 minute speech about the bb and practicing and living traditions and the steps and all this stuff that remembered loving na for. And watched a clip from the wire, where dude collects a white keytag. And all of a sudden I can feel my head up my ass getting all tangled up because one video decided to declare that the statement "this is a spiritual not religious program" is a farce and something about court mandated meetings and braking anonymity.
Sure. Sometimes I feel like someone or something has broken our guidelines. But you know what? I'm sure I'm just as fallible.
I love you guys, and this program.
Take it easy. People are not perfect. Why get all bent out of shape about what Bill W did in the 1960s. How does worrying about that help you stay clean today? This is a simple program for complicated people. Stick to the basics: meetings, stepwork, sponsorship, home group, service, fellowship, prayer and meditation. Keep coming back.
Thanks Dave. I guess in my head I forgot that by nature when we first start we are not so great-- decietful and sick and fallible-- in my head I heard all these people grateful for this man, and when I found out some distatefup things, I realized he didn't deserve a pedistal I had given him in my head. But who does? I set myself up for that and now I'm over it. Today I have a program to fall back on nomatter where it came from. And that's what helps me stay clean.
Hi Verwirrt. I remember sitting at home one morning 24 years ago reading the AA magazine "Grapevine". Life was looking good; i was staying clean and feeling serene. Things were falling into place, in many instances inspite of me and my self-will. I was reading and then came the article on Bills use of lsd during his sobriety. I read with incredulity. And i had a thought "wtf ?" The fear was tangible, a dark force in tge room with me.. I was thinking....if Bill, co founder and writer of the 12 Steps could do that, I may be tempted too. Having done lots of dots and sunshine and didnt want to flip anymore. And i could not share this fear with people who hadnt any such experience.
I wrote fears down and waited to share it with addicts. In the meantime, i read more on
this. I learnt three important things; 1. Societys views change. Lsd was a clinical drug in the 40s and 50s. Then Flower Power and the hippies turned that into a street drug. Lsd's reputation changed. What once was a facillitator in clinical practice was now being used by addicts. Many went permanently insane.
2. I, an addict needed NA input. I was relieved to read "when we use drugs in one form or another, we release our addiction all over again". My addiction will feed on the fact that there is no differance between drugs prescribed by the docs and what id write for myself.
3. Its Principles before personalities. Who does what with the Program is their business. Mine is to stay clean from all drugs, on a daily basis, and carry the message to addicts that stll suffer by working with others.
-- Edited by Raman on Friday 6th of July 2012 03:26:38 AM
-- Edited by Raman on Friday 6th of July 2012 03:29:59 AM
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Your right where your supposed to be. It will surely pass. thanks for the post. I remember when shit like that would bend me all out of shape. It shows that you are taking the program seriously. Just keep moving forward and it will all work itself out. Peace of mind is the ultimate goal here. pray, recognize the HP within you, and will come.
And "chick" is a misnormer. Being reffered to is Heinretta Siberling , the lady that introduced Bill to Dr.Bob, thereby setting in motion the first 12th Step call of AA.
She was privy to many of the goings on in those early days of AA.
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
You said:1. Societys views change. Lsd was a clinical drug in the 40s and 50s. Then Flower Power and the hippies turned that into a street drug. Lsd's reputation changed. What once was a facillitator in clinical practice was now being used by addicts. Many went permanently insane.
And pot is now in the early stages of medical use. Now I know a few people who have severe pain, paralasis, missing limbs, diabetes (which causes alot of pain from what I'm told), not just old people pain. And I could see if a dr prescribed vicodin or a morphine patch. Cause if you don't use it innapropriately, you don't get stoned you just get pain releif. But there is no way in hell your gonna tell me that anyone who uses medical pot is using it for pain. You can't get pain relieving benefits from pot with out being stoned. But, for arguments sake, let's say because it's an rx it's legal it's ok. I also know plenty more people with severe and nonsevere pain issues who choose drug free routes. And I don't care who you are, I wouldn't believe anyone who takes more than advil about their clean time. Bill didn't deserve those chips.
Pot was my drug of choice. Medical marijuana is not a good idea for me. I don't see how it could be a good idea for most people, but I try not to worry about that today. If people want to get an RX for this stuff and stay stoned all the time, that's their business. It's not what I choose to do today.
Interesting thread. It touches on the great conundrum in NA. Namely that we are a program that urges "abstinance from all mind and mood altering substances" yet we have a fellowship doctrine that says basically that "use of narcotics is ok under certain medical situations" It is not unreasonable for many people to see this as a contradiction, a cop out, or in some other way an inherent weakness in the program. AA has it much easier...there is NEVER a valid reason to use alcohol. But narcotics? try telling someone who just had major surgery that they can't use Rx pain killers. It is a conundrum indeed. I think the fellowship is making the best of this difficult situation, but clearly it opens the door for pot heads and others to go to meetings high and pick up keytags for being clean. And so it goes.
All the related material was condensed in the NA publication "What is addiction? " from the 80s. I know I have that in my collection and will scan and post it here shortly... That should answer a few questions.
(but be warned; you may find more questions emerging....just when you thought it was all figured out !!!)
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
And I could see if a dr prescribed vicodin or a morphine patch. Cause if you don't use it innapropriately, you don't get stoned you just get pain releif.
Guess again!
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Work the Steps or Die MF. (My Friend :) Clean One Day At a Time by The Grace of God through The Power of NA
Then I guess my tolerance never went down, when I snapped a rib that they had to remove, I had a 2 day supply after surgery (4pills, 1q12h) and I took one the first day and one the next and returned the other 2 to my pharmacist (btw they do this for expired meds too) and I don't remember feeling anything but pain relief. On the other hand... I knew someone who faked foot spurs, got surgery done-- they found nothing-- and spend 6 weeks red in the face he used so much morphine. I guess it's different, but I think I'll excuse anything but pot, as long as you don't appear stoned at a meeting. That is disrespectful.
The Only Requirement for Membership is the Desire to Stop Using.
Glad you weren't around to judge me when I came back from a 3 year relapse. Maybe others did judge me I don't know and didn't care. I wanted to stop using and couldn't. I went to 2 to 3 meetings a day everyday for 3 weeks Stoned on Mother Nature before and after every meeting. I had the Desire but COULD NOT STOP using. Then at the Sunday Night Meeting the Miracle Happened, a great burden was lifted from my shoulders, I was given a Choice, I never had to use again if I didn't want to. I've been Clean ever since. By the Grace of God through the Power of NA working on 32 years Clean.
No I didn't share stoned at those meetings professing to be Clean. I didn't say a word, just sat there hoping beyond hope for an end to the daily misery that was life. Yet I believe the princliples to be the same. It is not for me to judge anyone else's Journey in Recovery. I am responsible for my Recovery, nobody else's.
Keep Coming Back.
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Work the Steps or Die MF. (My Friend :) Clean One Day At a Time by The Grace of God through The Power of NA
I try to put my past behind me but my PO thinks I should "Register" when I move. ( not live near schools) This Massachuaaeta Law is unconstitutional but friends in NA give me help. I got a nice little place 22 Wellington St Medford. It'd near every thing MBTA.Stop by we can go to a meeting.
I am Mark available for sponsorship. Let me show u the way!
