I feel sad when people bag on AA in meetings or say "the other fellowship" I mean c'mon you can't even say the name of our founders?
I love AA and am proud of it. I go to AA meetings sometimes but most of my exposure to it is from the Big Book. I participated in a BB study and it was amazing. I could not believe this book. I have since read the other AA literature and it just speaks to me. I know there is no separation between an alcoholic and a drug addict because that literature is speaking to me about me jsut like the Basic Text. I now prefer AA literature because it speaks to my soul deeper than NA literature (only way I can describe it) and people have the nerve to say I am watering down my recovery by involving myself in both fellowships! I love NA and attend NA meetings and conventions and am totally immersed in this fellowship with service and sponsorship. I pray and meditate daily and never once have I thought hmmm maybe I should just cut out my AA involvement because people are really uncomfortable with it. LOL. ok rant over.
I get where people are coming from with the clarity statement and not wanting to confuse newcomers. I am not flamboyent about my involvement in both fellowships; I respect the meeting I am in with the correct verbage and what not and I only go to open AA meetings because technically I am not an "alcoholic".
Does this bother anyone else how AA doesn't seem to be respected by some?
It doesn't bother me that much geez this post makes me sound a little koo koo...lol
thoughts?? I really value the people on here and would love to just hear your random thoughts on this topic. Thanks guys!
well my own experience is this; I felt a lot of hate and fear pointed at me in AA meetings. Though I identified as an alcoholic when in an AA meeting, they knew i was an addict. They were saying that I need to go out and start NA, that alcoholics would be turned by the presence of addicts and a lot of other discrimination, both loud and silent.
The many addicts I got to these AA meetings in the hope that they would at least use the 12 Steps went back out. It was hard for the to make adjustments, especially if they had not done alcohol. Many died,,,,,some quick, some after many tortous years.
I had to endure this torture for five years till NA was up and running. Honestly, often times id think "I wish I could be in a roomfull of addicts and say Im an addict too".
Having said all of that, I am greatful to those members that bucked the trend and took time and trouble to support me in my recovery.
My gratitude speaks when I share and I care with others, the NA Way; be they addicts or alcoholics.
__________________
Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Right on, Raman. Thanks for sharing your story. I have never experienced this in the AA meetings in my area but I have heard similar things. People who are spiritually fit I would think wouldn't act that way...doesn't add up. I totally love NA meetings and really feel at home and that it is where I belong for sure. :) We are just so crazy sometimes in a good way...maybe those alcoholics were intimidated by your coolness... sounds like there was something wrong with them not you! But yea times have changed I think...
I have been clearn for 27 years. When I got clean, there were not many NA meetings around. So we went to NA and AA meetings. We did what we had to do to get clean. Over the years, I have gone to both fellowships, though lately I have been focusing on NA, especially NA service. The AA haters that I have met seem to have forgotten about (or never learned about) NA's relationship tp AA. NA borrowed the steps and traditions from AA. Without AA, there would be no NA. People seem to forget this. Most of the AA haters in my area are people who are relatively new but also gung-ho NA. The oldtimers, like me, who have gone to both fellowships, are more tolerant. This brings up another point: AA hating is like religious intolerance. Someone who has a grudge against AA is like the religious zealot who says that my religion is right and all others are wrong.
I think that whatever works for a person is fine. Personally, even though I was not welcomed in AA (I was actually "escorted" out of a meeting) I have come to understand why it is important to many AA's that only drug addicts who also have alcohol problems are welcome as members. AA has a single focus on a substance, alcohol...their identification is as alcoholics. In the words of Bill Wilson when the issue of drug addicts attending AA came up "We cannot be everything to everybody" So I guess it's only natural that some in NA feel something like "We are not welcome in thier meetings, so they are not welcome in ours." this is unfortunate but is understandable... My experience was in the mid 90's. I think many AA groups have come along since then who don't mind people talking about drugs so long as they also mention alcohol. Addiction is so out of control these days that we need all the help we can get. I think things like the clarity statement are good. No one forces anyone to share in a particular way, but by asking people to keep the focus on addiction rather than particular substances we demonstrate how our approach is different from AA, CA etc. This blurring of the fellowships, to my mind, is risky. The fellowships while all dedicated to the 12 steps, really do go about things differently. The working of the steps is a clear example. AA uses the big book with some supplemental literature. NA uses the step workbook. Very very different approaches IMHO. I think the challenge is for each of the fellowships to maintain their individuality without being hostile to the others. As for any person seeking recovery. I say, try everything. If your really serious about recovery, eventually you will find a routine that works for you. Being clean and/or sober is ultimately all that matters.
Many of the old timers I've met in NA have said the same thing. They got "sober" in AA, but found their recovery in NA. Many were not allowed to disclose anything about being an addict for years before finding NA. My sponsor is one of them. She still slips the "clean and sober" thing every once in a while, but I don't hold it against her. :)
The reference to "the other fellowship" in NA meetings is in following with our sixth tradition to an extreme. Many feel that by referencing AA, it's giving that fellowship an endorsement. It's kinda ridiculous.
Each person works their program differently. I'm glad you've found what works for you. I found my recovery in NA, so I work the NA steps. I have a big book on my bookshelf... and I reference it every once in a while... along with the SLAA green book and a variety of other self-help books. They've all benefited me in one way or another in my recovery thus far.
One thing I feel pretty strongly about: if you're going to sponsor women in NA, be upfront about your affiliations with AA. Let them know how you work steps (because, guess what? they ARE different...). I wouldn't want to ask someone to be my NA sponsor only to find that they work a different program. That's just me.
I don't know... it just seemed easier to pick a program and stick to it.
When I moved to Columbia Missouri I didn't like it. Although the meetings were generally good, the way each group would downgrade each other just made me sick. Jokes or not it isn't called for. The AA I went to used to say, "if you want recovery you go to AA, if you want to get laid you go to NA."
Worst than that there were litterally fights. It doesn't show me what I wanted in Recovery.
__________________
Just Keep ON KEEPING ON!!!!!!!!!! If we live we are just pretty lucky
I too have heard people say that you can't mention AA at an NA meeting because it violates the tradition on non edorsement, but how can that be? Our basic text mentions AA, and expresses gratitude to that fellowship for supplying the foundation for NA's 12 steps. that;s why I like the clarity statement. It points out the differences and explains the important of keeping to the NA message, but it does so in a respectful manner that doesn't force anyone to do anything. All this hating is just our/their disease at work.
When I went to AA meetings they politley told me that we don't talk about drugs here and they suggested I find an NA meeting. It kind of upset me at first, but I grew to understand their singleness of purpose. When I got to an AA meeting, I introduce myself an an alcoholic. When I go to NA, I say I am an addict.
My sponsees know this. I have worked steps in both AA NA. The sponsee I have now goes to both fellowships.
Thank you all for your input it definitely helps to get different perspectives. I have to remember that I have more to learn in this life and I have to remain teachable. Spiritually I feel wonderful and so I will continue on this path.
I don't have to share about what I used in AA meetings there are so many other ways to share about stepwork character defects, prayer and medititation. It has never been an issue to not share about using drugs.
I love AA and try to make time to attend on a regular basis. When we focus on our similarities instead of our differences, we get to hear the message of recovery.
in 84 when I got clean/sober AA really shunned to the point of asking you to leave if you shared as an ANDA(alcoholic and addict) .i HAVE ATTENDED MANY AA MEETINGS WHERE THE BULK OF THE PEOPLE ATTENDING SHARE AS anda's... The major difference I see and its pretty big,is many alcoholics dont recognize the "DISEASE OF ADDICTION' they believe addiction is a symptom of alcoholism..We believe that the focus is not on any specific drug but the "disease of addiction" physical,mental and spiritual allery that affects all areas of our lives.Thats a pretty big and discerning difference.It is called the "tenstike" for NA .iN AA the "tenstike" was adding "God of your understanding" to the original steps that were formulated before Bill and BOB.. When I share or attend an AA meeting ,pretty rare if Im out of town etc...or just want to show up I say 'I am Mike.I FIRMLY BELIEVE IN THE 3RD TRADITION.and I respect the house im in............10TH AND 11TH TRADITION in OUR LITERATURE(NA) talks of sharing in our own colorful words and that anything is sharing material as long as we look at some guidelines..(iT WORKS HOW AND WHY!) tHE MESSAGE NEEDS TO BE HOPE AND THE PROMISE OF FREEDOM,NOT WHAT THE AA OR NA police are expounding at the expense of sharing recovery...Before I got settled I wasnt sure if I was a drug addict who liked to drink or an alcoholic who liked to use drugs.Any mind altering mood changing substance is deadly for this addict...2 cents from the peanut gallery. I like what dave said, intolerance to any thing can lead to an unfit spiritual condition if we are not careful(keep it on me) Anyway there are many roads to recovery ,God will lead us to the place we need to be to carry the message of recovery.Wording may be different but if Im falling off the cliff and u drink and think i dont need help,or you use drugs and dont think i need help that aint gonna matter to me,,I DO NEED HELP!! Please give me a hand........ tHIS TOPIC WILL ALWAYS BE UP FOR DEBATE AND i WILL ALWAYS BE AN ADDICT because I used alcohol and drugs until the point of death,.Gods grace has allowed me a new way of life without the use of either substance and discernement on caffeine and nicotine(NA HAS NO OPINION ON AND I USE ONE(COFFEE AND NOT THE OTHER) :)tHANKS aLLIE IN Gods love 'HATING" DOESNT REALLY FIT................
__________________
Our purpose is to remain clean,just for today,and to carry the message of recovery.
I think it come down to the one who still suffers. The point of identification I was court ordered to AA many time be for I got clean and was unable to relate That was back in the late 70's. As many have said here AA was alot different back than. After finding NA and got the point the step and some understanding of the Spiritual Principles I did go to both AA and NA for many years. But my loyalty is with NA for it saved my life Thank God! At that time there was no BT only the white book. My sponcer wanted me read the BB. I told him that my problem was not alcohol. Any way to keep along story short he had me change the words in the BB. Change alcohol to drugs, alcoholic to addict, drink to use and so on. I show him that had did what he wanted and he handed the book back and told me " now read it". To this day I have to be careful at meeting not to quote BB and piss the NA police off. In some ways NA has got just as bad as AA was back year ago.
The AA fellowship I go to voted recently for closed meetings ( non alcoholics cannot share) and it was voted down, there are to many of us dual addicted in the rooms of AA and i'm talking old timers too :)
The AA fellowship I go to voted recently for closed meetings ( non alcoholics cannot share) and it was voted down, there are to many of us dual addicted in the rooms of AA and i'm talking old timers too :)
Cool. Yes there are. My sponsor is not an AA fan for some reason....well she just thinks NA is 'better' because it focuses on the disease and not a substance. I took that and started spouting it off when I was new because I didn't know any better until I read the BB and realized that it just was not true. :) I love her she is amazing but we are different. Politically, religiously and fellowshiply....LMAO But she's been my sponsor for 5 years and I wouldn't trade her for the world. Funny how recovery is awesome like that.
Raman,I tend to agree with you . I am a true NA person , our literature is for us .AA literature is for alcoholics , My wife is in AA . We both seek our recovery where we need it and can get it .
Thanks Colin. My focus is NA. All the extensions in my life come from it; family, friends, fellowship, job, career and Spirituality. The whole thing's centred in NA's 12 Step Tradition.
Yes, in the beggining, and like Greg said, I too had to replace words to myself in AA literature; alky to addict, alcohol to drugs, ism to addiction and such like mental migrations. I certainly am greatful for AA support in the first five years of my recovery and repaid that debt by doing service in AA and sponsoring many alcoholics.
However, while I dont agree or support the "bushwhackers" in NA group's for taking to task those that use words like Bill.W or Big Book or AA terms in their shares, I do like to act pon singleness of purpose, as written and shared in AA itself. In fact, I use the quote from AA "Shoemaker stick to thy last,,,,,,,,,,," and have myself experienced that it is better to do one thing (NA) well, than do a very average, mediocre effort on the many.
Now if some people are going to mis-construct or ,mis-interpret that as wrong, then its their problem; maybe they need to look where they really are going !
In fact, with my history, Id qualify for a lot of Fellowships, including; AA, OA, CDA, Compulsive Spender's anon, OCAA, Families anon, Sex and love addicts anonymous, Emotions Anonymous, Creativity Anonymous (perhaps others too).
Oh God, how un-manageable that would be, to be in all those Fellowships ? when would I get time to live life on life's terms ?
Im so greatful that by being willing to place NA at the center of my existence, I also get to live life, clean and serene and a greatful recovering addict !
And I say again, my gratitude speaks when I care and I share the NA Way !
And the heartbeat of NA is; one addict helping another. Because only one addict can best understand and help another addict; we are the proof !
__________________
Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
The whole point of identifying yourself as an "alcoholic" in an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting is to prevent leaning on the crutch of terminal uniqueness. How many people have died because they felt they were different and didn't need to recover from alcohol OR drugs? It's not about shunning people who are addicted to drugs, it's about identifying the fact that you have alcoholism. It's the same reason that we identify as an "addict" in an NA meeting. Obviously, part of it is saying it out loud is about adjusting to the belief that you do, in fact, have a problem. The self identification is about so much more than that. To me, it is freedom. I feel a wave of relief every time I sit my butt in a chair in EITHER fellowship and identify with others about a common problem. I do, however, feel that AA was divinely inspired when it was formed. God is the only explanation for such an amazing solution to alcoholism. That does not change the fact that we are still human and we are still flawed and we make mistakes. But you can not hold an entire fellowship responsible for the actions of a few of its members. If anyone was intentionally harsh to an addict in an AA meeting, it was because they thought they were protecting the fellowship as a whole and other alcoholics that may be affected and not understand why. Identifying as JUST AN ADDICT because you both drank and did drugs is the same thing as saying that alcoholism is of no importance to me. I'd also like to add that most of my alcohol and drug "career" was spent smoking meth and snorting oxycontin, so I am by no means "just an alcoholic". HOWEVER, what I believe that I have is alcoholism. My first experience with a mood altering substance was alcohol. Alcohol led me to discover things that I preferred over it, but the disease of alcoholism is something that I know was present long before I took a drink or a drug. I believe that the alcoholics anonymous literature describes this perfectly. I have read the NA literature and I have trouble feeling the same deep feeling of comfort when I read it. I grew up in the fellowship of AA because both of my parents are in recovery. What I saw in their lives and their friends was indescribable. I have yet to experience that in NA. I have had some BAD experiences with NA. And I'm talking statewide and even crossing state lines-- NOT JUST IN MY TOWN. I've had dozens of guys use that whole hug thing as a way to feel my breasts against their chest, I've felt judged, I've been mocked, I've seen people shake their ass in high heels at a convention while listening to rap music like they're still on the streets, and I've heard nothing but ego in almost every meeting I've been to. That being said, I feel done with NA. If it works for others, great, recovery is where it's at regardless but I will defend AA for the rest of my life. Nothing compares to the life that it has given me. I would be dead if I only had NA to depend on.
tHANKS aLLIE IN Gods love 'HATING" DOESNT REALLY FIT................
