I've been going to meetings and I'm really struggling with this whole higher power thing. I like everything about this program, but this is the one thing I can't seem to swallow. For the time being I've made NA my higher power, and people have told me that it's fine, but I'm already seeing problems with this strategy. I can't pray to NA, and NA is certainly not going to take away any of my character defects just by asking. There are tons of other things that I can't think of, but it seems to me that only a god could do some of the things being asked. Well, god or my own actions. It really makes me confused when people attribute coincidences or their own hard work to god. It seems like it stops people from examining the things in their life. I've been told that all I need is an open mind, and I have one, but that means for me that my mind is open to the possibility that there isn't someone/something up there taking an active role in my life. I also can't deny what I know of things like natural selection and evolution. This is really tearing me up because I feel like if I bring this up in a meeting people will think Im just trying to buck the system, or Im confused about the issue of gods existence. At the time this is what I believe, as much as anyone who believes in god does. Some comments or answers looking at it from that perspective would be much appreciated. I just want to know if this is a deal breaker and if ANYONE feels this way too. Thanks.
NA is a simple program for complicated people. You can't be to stupid to 'get' the program, but you can be too smart. These two sayings jumped out at me while reading your post. I recall going through alot of questioning my first time around. It only served to lead me out the door. Just take a deep breath and relax. All you need to believe at this time is that NA can help you stay clean. The steps are in order for a reason. If you haven't done so already then get a sponsor. Many sponsors I know don't have their sponsees work any steps untill they have been going to meetings for 90 days. You get grounded in the program that way. There are aetheists in NA who stay clean without praying to God so that is definetly possible. Easy does it. Remember too that your disease is very crafty. It always seeks devious ways to get you back to using. Having you focus on the aspects of the program that you question rather than the things you can accept is one way it does this. Do you believe that NA has helped thousands of addicts stay off drugs? If you do (and you should because it has) then keep coming back and these mysteries will unfold in time. thanks for posting.
I agree with Avid ,dont let this 'confusion" take you back out,our illness is very cunning.Finding a sponsor to help you work in the solution of our steps is highly suggested,We are told that those who find sponsor ship valuable benefit the most from our program,About this God/Higher Power thing,first of all we have to look at what we are tryng to do here in our "coming to believe" It is restoration to sanity we are talking about.We have surrendered admitted our powerlessness and unmanageability but now what "THE VOID"So what is this Power we talk about?The power we talk of in our 2nd step is not necessarily the"ultimate Higher Power ' we are referring to (unless that is your concept of here)the power we develop in this second step is lets say"situational" We could call it a gift from our Higher Power .It can be the NA program,,a sponsor,another person, pain or something we may read. It is anything that makes us aware of the insanity of a situation if we act out on a defect or negative will. Writings will ask us'do we now believe in a powergreater than ourselves and when we can answer yes or even be "willing" tobelieve we form a firm spiritual foundation to move our recoveryforward.The only guidelines are the power be loving/caring and greater than you(definitely not you)lets say us..Remember we are introduced to a Higher Power(God as you understand) in third step.But lets see how we apply this power in our lives. NA is the initial power greater than us based on the evidence of seeing others who are staying clean.The program shows us ways to stay clean and get thru early problems without using..At meetings someone may share something with you ,something makes you aware of a better way so it can be changed by working on it.Pain is lways a power greater than us,sometimes the only thing(we say when the pain outweighs the pleasure,we become ready)a sponsor or recovering adddict can also be that power greater than you making us aware(our self deception is part of our illness)There are many situations that may want to cause you to refund your insanity and through sponsor ship, step work you can learn to apply the principle(which can also be that power)I can only suggest you continue making meetings,just don't use,follow suggestions,find a sponsor and listen to learn and learn to listen.Give yourself a break we say and stick and stay.We really do care,one addict helping another. Like Don says ,relax,share your honest feelings,there is nothing you can say that most likelyhasn't been shared before.Honesty is our antidote to our diseased thinking...With a sponsor,what you can't throw in the middle you will find an outlet to be able to free yourself...Listen for one and let your "new way of living begin"Didn't mean for such a long diatribe but this ain't no joke,dont let the cunning/baffling /insidious sickness take you back..Hope to hear more from ya!!! peace
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Our purpose is to remain clean,just for today,and to carry the message of recovery.
I'm with Mike and Avid. When I first started going to meetings ( in my early 20's ) I to had an issue with the whole GOD thing, but I needed to have faith in something greater than myself. I would turn things over to the universe and trust in the natural order of things. 26yrs later and with many relapses under my belt I have made peace with a God of my own understanding, a caring and loving God that will be with me no matter what. I have learnt to trust that everything will be ok as long as I don't pick up. Just give yourself a break and trust that in time things will change for you to, one of my favorite sayings in the fellowship is fake it till you make it, it worked for me.........
Question, could you stay off smack by your own will? I most certainly couldn't stay Clean before finding NA. Shrinks didn't work, jail and threat of jail didn't work, religion didn't work, six months in-patient didn't work, my will power most certainly didn't work.
I tried getting Clean for about 4 years before something happened that worked. I went to NA meetings, 2 to 3 meetings a day every day for 3 weeks loaded before and after every meeting. Not loaded on heroin, was on my "organic lie" just smoking good herb but loaded none the less. I wanted to stop using but I couldn't. Then one Sunday night during yet another meeting a Miracle happened. I still small voice spoke to me and said
"if you want to keep getting loaded quit fooling around with pot, get some china white and get your head on your chest like you really want. But you don't have to get loaded if you don't want to, you have a choice today."
At that moment a terrible weight was lifted from my soul and a peace came over me. After the meeting I was able to through away the dope in my pocket and haven't used since. That meeting was November 29th, 1980, I've been Clean since waking up Clean the next morning 11/30/1980.
What took that never ending complusion to use away? Was it the power of the Clean addicts in the meeting speaking silently to me in my mind or was it a "god" of my understanding I most certainly didn't understand at the time? My answer today is yes, god working through recovering addicts. Doesn't matter if you believe in god, most certainly not a dogmatic religious god for me. Yet the Miracle was VERY real, and still is very real. I am Clean and that's a miracle. I COULD NOT STOP USING EVEN THOUGH I WANTED TO. And then suddenly I could. NA works. I know it in every fiber of my being.
Give yourself a break, keep it simple. And yes, fake it til you make it.
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Work the Steps or Die MF. (My Friend :) Clean One Day At a Time by The Grace of God through The Power of NA
Oh, about "NA" not being able to take away your defects of character. Don't sweat it. First I'll clarify today I do believe in a God of my understanding. And my God didn't and doesn't just take away my defects of character. Doesn't just make life all hunkie dorie. I find the strength to deal with my shit through a power greater than myself that I choose to call God, that power or God doesn't do it for me. NA isn't about finding that "magic carpet ride", we gotta do the footwork and then leave the results up to a power greater than ourselves. Makes life easier too, don't have to beat ourselves up (as much).
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Work the Steps or Die MF. (My Friend :) Clean One Day At a Time by The Grace of God through The Power of NA
As an agnostic, I also had trouble with the whole God thing. But I really wanted to stay clean, so I followed directions. I used the group, the steps, the NA program, as my HP. And it worked. The bottom line is that I need to believe in something (besides me) that will keep me clean. I need to listen tot people and follow suggestions. If I just listen to my own BS, I'll got back out and use drugs again.
Me to.Not as far along as you even.I thought Darwin was also great philosopher beyond orgin of species.Not advocating budhism who gautama was born a hindu.The abramic religions which morphed into protestant calvonist,in US became mormons,Ya all men I have problems to.Last time an angel came to me it was from to big a bong hit you think Smith the mormon or Mohamad were smoking hash when they seen the angels.I have no religion but believe in spirit.This is what helps me when I want to jump of a bridge.The void involved with meditation.Studied brainwaves have shown them to be different from relaxation therapy or hypno therapy.Get a simple book there are many forms.Budahs proclamations and noble truths.Life is suffering,We cling to this world material,drugs money but we are not are mind,When we conquer are haste and quit clinging to what we think we need to feel good or for are worth we can attain enlightment.Bunch of bull shit I hear ya.But what I do is realize that every human in the world is connected in some way we cant understand yet and we all suffer.We all affect each other.When Im suffering badly I always know someone is happy somewhere on the planet,and i would rather it be me then them.But meditation brings you away from all that into the great void where you loose your mind and are one with the world.Its hard to do when your flustered like me right now.Even if Im full of shit which is probably true its good for your health,take a few weeks try it.lOOK UP BREATHE COUNTING,CANDLE,AND BOTTOM OF POOL MEDITATION.iM EXHAUSTED GOOD LUCK
Hi. I am compelled to respond to your cry for help here. Partly because my path was so similar.
My first choice for my higher power was the group itself. I liked the properties of it being real, tangible and having my belief in people who were trying to help me was easy. But like you, I couldn't pray to them and felt like I'd boxed myself in.
What may help here is focus on something you *do* believe in already -- do you see great mystery in the world? The powers of the universe that have manifested all these galaxies, stars and planets -- and on one particular planet, some of the matter has come alive and is able to perceive itself. This is real -- so is life itself something that is greater than you? It clearly loves us or we wouldn't be present at all. It's enchanting us to crawl out of the muck of the ocean and wake up to the wonder of everything.
And we're doing it, if slowly, ever so slowly.
That was my path -- to believe in the spirit of life itself. And it remains my HP today. I don't need religion to be spiritual. I don't need a church to be in tune with HP. And I don't need anyone else to agree with me, as it's a personal thing.
I hope this may help you and I wish you the best.
Listen to the wisdom here -- don't let something like an aversion to religion push you back to using! At the beginning many impulses appear to reject change and return to the false comfort of substances. Call people in your group, go to meetings and stay clean just for today. It gets better.
