You can get clean and stay clean without being confused about the religious spirituality of 12 step programs because I have and so have many, many others.
You no longer have to feel guilt about being a closet athiest in NA. "the steps are ment to be suggestive only" You cant turn it over when it doesent exist. What if you understand God as not to exist. Narcotics Anonymous can really be openminded when members dont judge those whom dont want to become religious*spirtual*(its the same) Faith is a religous word. The power is in us all. Take back the power. I didnt get clean until I took GOD out of my"PROGRAM" 1991 You Do Not Have to Become "CONVERTED TO A RELIGION IN DENIAL" to give up your addiction.
-- Edited by steveTN on Saturday 19th of June 2010 05:32:20 PM
Alrighty Steve, first, let me welcome you to MIP. Personally I like the spirituality that has grown within me via the 12 steps. I find no religion in it, but rather a fiercely protected (by our traditions) right to choose my higher power. This was a huge relief for me for two reasons. First, my previous higher power was drugs, and I had no choice in the matter. Second because I came into the room as you say "confused about the religious spirituality". I was told I could use the group and/or the fellowship as my HP so I did and it worked. I know several atheists in the rooms. These guys work a fine program of recovery and are respected members of our area. They have no belief in God but rather a belief in a Higher Power that works for them and that is exactly how it should be. They do not feel guilty about that, nor should they. If there are members in my area who are "closet atheists" my response is "how sad for them" I would encourage them to seek the council of one who is clean and serene without a belief in God. Tolerance is a vital spiritual principle in our fellowship. You are free to pursue your program as works best for you. As for the power "being in all of us" well, all i can say to that is that my experience is different. I was active for 40 years trying on countless occasions to use my power to stop. Nothing worked for me till I surrendered to a power greater than me. That power is the rooms of Narcotics Anonymous and a loving caring God who does for me what I cannot do for myself. Peace to you Steve
A spirutal way of life is living on spirtual terms, kindness, love, tolerance, acceptance etc etc I've been to an actual church service once in the last 10 years I do consider myself some what religous though. I like to call my higher power god and the support groups both of which are spiritual powers.
So steve welcome your beliefs are just that yours and no ones cramming anything down anyones throat I know people who stay clean without God and without working the steps so on so fourth its all ones own decision to take whats offered or not, being clean is part of recovery theres more for many of us to do, much more sometimes , some are sicker then others you know that though
all we need is a Power greater than our addiction!
Welcome home Steve, thanks for sharing...
__________________
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
also, like one of the members from here shares often - GOD is Good Orderly Direction for many of us!
And for some, if it's Jesus or Shiva or Allah or the Spirit within or our own conscience as one of my mentors at my Rehab Center used to perceive a Higher Power as, so be it, the point is that it works for each of us, whatever we open our mind to...
'Coming to Believe' I've come to know and realize is what's most important! If I'm down with a flu, I try to apply my 2nd Step and come to believe in my Doctor, and by reaching out to him and following his directions/suggestions, I apply my 3rd, I surrender.
Asking my Sponsor for help, reaching out to another member, sharing about my issues at a NA meeting, or praying to the God of my understanding, listening to my conscience, following my heart, it's all connecting to a Power greater than my addiction. It doesn't matter what it is or what works or what not. It's the action for me, admitting that I'm powerless, that I can't, opening my mind to someone or something that could help me, reaching out and asking for help, being willing enough to surrender and try out the suggestions and direction I receive... this process is what keeps me in my recovery, not so much the dogmas of God or No-God And at the end of it, I believe a Higher Power helps me exactly the way that I could be helped, and so it is for others; that my truth is not the complete truth or the only truth. It's my truth, no doubt about it, just like others' truth is theirs, neither above nor below, exactly as it should be for each of us.
__________________
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
As Ive understood it over the years,, the right to a God of your understanding is total and without any catches. And that means that God of your understanding can be no God at all.
I believe that Godistheforcethatkeepsmeanaddictcleanandserenejustfortoday !!!
__________________
Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
Wow SteveTN, you sound angry! Actually religion an spirituality are two different things. You can have the mechanics of religion and no spirituality, or you can spiritual without religiaon such as you. GOD of your understanding could be the GROUP! I believe we get caught up with labels and forget the goal! Don't Use no matter what! That's how I gave up my seven yrs. trying to be complicated. For me I now know I need a power greater than myself, because my insane brain is the same brain that gave me those brilliant (and costly) ideas. I just want to let someone guide me through this and not worry so much. Im still glad that you are here for me when I came back and I love the idea that anyone with the desire to stop using is a member! No religion! Just the renewing of my mind, choices and desires to be an asset to society instead of a liability. Happy Father's Day!
Another funny thing I heard when I was new to recovery - religion is for those who are scared of hell, spirituality is for those who've been to hell and back!
this was the first time I heard where someone actually differentiated religion and spirituality for me, although in a lighter, humorous way...
__________________
"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
NA is for everyone to work. I think for me, even mentioning my belief is un-necessary. I try say in meetings what I do rather than express the things I don't do. My thinking is that a newcomer who is forming what they believe will mistake what I'm saying as an NA principle and delay trying a process that may be perfect for them.
In the part of the United States where I live now alot of the population are raised in a certain "Type" of beliefs that dictate they get others to follow their beliefs, it's their duty. I would hope we could refrain from that in NA. In my group we fall short. Last birthday night one person found it necessary to "come out" with their beliefs, then another, then another. To me, most of them, I recall about 3 out of 4 of them, sounded very angry and expressed that their faith is somehow opressed by others in NA.
I always feel somehow responsible for their opression and have to remind myself they may not be speaking directly to me.
I may not be the center of their dilemma. I hope I help to welcome all people to NA, especially the addicts.
Boyyee, Glad that the direction i get is without any cathes. the 11th step mentions the GOD WITHIN. Spirituality is the essence of spirit which is what I beleive to be away of life. What others my see when they observe us from afar or interact with us. ?? Have you ever witnessed a corpes be spiritaull possibly not there's nothing within. Religion on the other hand is the gather of followers dedicated to a belief in one particular model for guidance. Whatever works works. I may have gotten clean without the thought of a GOD, but after 20yrs,11months,2days I am glad I have a GOD THAT HELPS ME STAY CLEAN.
SteveTN, we be on the same page Come on, The word/name "GOD only means one thing. It is very specific even in the program. "I can remember my first meeting when I lost hope again when I heard find god or die." Cant you see we are being force fed nasty tasting medicine with sugar on it? (Than there are the expected, canned responses about treating a disease) Oh, If addiction is a disease, isn't a sponsor practicing medicine without a license? Kind of like being stuck in mid-evil times. (get your head cut off,ostracized, judged for not believing) Yep, YOU ALL do that. Some already admit the program is a cult.(drink the coffee, drink the coffee, drink the coffee,call your sponsor, call your sponsor) If you want to find god, grow wings and get your feet off of the ground and look outside of our responsibility to ourselves(Waitin for god) go for it. Call it being "churched", Getting clean with hokus-pokus, Superstitious guilt will make you sick. I ,We, the people suggest, Stop being confusing about the program. Reveal the contradictions Keeping it simple is not part of the program. The rest of your life is not one day at a time Remember the only requirement... Remember the primary purpose... Admit that the religiously spiritual program's real primary purpose is to find god. Admit that 12 step programs are their own religion(in denial) Where is it written in the steps to STOP USING? Ok, here is the truth. More people stay clean in spite of recovery programs rather than because of them. Put your feet on the ground. Take Responsibility. I Did MY ADDICTION WAS REAL, I NEEDED A REAL SOLUTION I too got clean in 12 step programs without GOD with the help of REBT and a lot of therapy. -- Edited by Bownomo on Monday 28th of June 2010 10:36:27 AM
-- Edited by Bownomo on Monday 28th of June 2010 10:40:46 AM
-- Edited by Bownomo on Monday 28th of June 2010 10:42:04 AM
The 12 step programs, both AA and NA are very specific on what god means. There is 1, only one meaning for the word god and and the word him as a proper noun and in capital letters as written in their texts. NA tries, but there is really no unity when real atheists are excluded by prayer. My step 2 and 3 are (.2 Come to believe that I can get clean and stay clean. (.3 Made a decision to find my power within to be clean. It Works for me as ity has for others, it will for you too. See, No More Hokus-Pokus
-- Edited by Bownomo on Tuesday 21st of September 2010 01:06:38 PM
.
Boyyee, Glad that the direction i get is without any cathes. the 11th step mentions the GOD WITHIN. Spirituality is the essence of spirit which is what I beleive to be away of life. What others my see when they observe us from afar or interact with us. ?? Have you ever witnessed a corpes be spiritaull possibly not there's nothing within.
