I was going back and found something that Id really like to open up a discussion about. When I answer a post with whatever comes to my mind( what I personally hear may be quite opposite from any one of you)I do so with only the best intentions as I am sure all of you do. If I feel that calling someone out on their b.s or writing from my own experiences will be attacked, then I would stop sharing. The whole idea of what n.a is based on would be lost. I want my freedom to post and answer knowing that what I say is not going to be taken as a personal attack and Ill recieve incoming fire !! Now this did not happen to me. Im using the first person so that nobody gets offended and I dont want to have to do that! I take into account that we are all sick people lmao and that most of us are in different places in our recovery( or lack thereof). Help me out guys. Am I being judgmental myself? Is not the whole point of this program "honesty,openmindedness and willingness" Without these we are dead in the water.( see I almost erased that sentence because I was afraid of saying the we in that sentence and having someone tell me speak for yourself)
Many conversations get " spirited " and even those that may get out of hand are part of the big picture. We are growing and the mistakes along with the good things are part of all our processes .
Learning not to take these things personal is also part of the process . If my share is considerate and polite and wrong I can expect to me lovingly corrected. If Im rude and forceful I can expect the same back. In either case Im learning.
In the past it has always been my way or the highway and anyone that disagreed with me would rue the day of their birth ( or so it was in my mind)
This is MY recovery. I will say what I want . Good bad or indifferent. I depend on my brothers and sisters in the fellowship to show me a different way. That often means putting my victim mask on a shelf . And being openminded to some suggestions and directions.
Your being a bit hard on yourself AND us. IMHO
Even though this isnt an NA meeting it brings to mind one of my favorite NA sayings.
" If you like everyone youve met at an NA meeting , You havent been to enough meetings "
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The fundamental delusion of humanity , is to suppose that I am here and you are out there .
Hi Carol! mikef here! I firmly believe "for me" honesty ,openmindedness and willingness also are accompanied by discernment and discretion.I always try and take what "I " need and leave the rest behind. I like the way anthony put it if what I say is considerate and polite and wrong I would hope to be corrected in that way.If "attack" mode comes at me I will most likely be more aggresive.I have been at meetings where the "addict " would open up by saying F*ck you all ,I dont care what you think of me,This is about my recovery,etc..etc..I feel this tends to put "us" in a non condusive atmosphere of recovery.Remember this is "just me".You are absolutely correct in sharing how and what you want but when you do ask yourself "is this helping my recovery"I am still making basically 3 meetings a week and somenights when that 'ONE" person gets up and goes thru the same routine(some similar to how i Just said previuosly)I probably roll my eyes but try to find something that may help me in the share, it doesnt allways happen..I cannot and try not to let "anyone steal my joy" .its a ton of work,cause IM SICK!!!!Thanks for being here and sharing from your heart ,its what really matters. talk to you on the rebound
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Our purpose is to remain clean,just for today,and to carry the message of recovery.
The Basic Text tells us that we are each other's eyes and ears. I rarely spot my own bull without help. If you love me, PLEASE call me out on my bull in a loving, tactful, and non-judgemental manner... YOU JUST MIGHT SAVE MY LIFE!!!
The Basic Text also tells us that we are suppposed to share our ESH (Experience, Strength, and Hope)... admittedly, I am, at times, too caught up in the problem to stay in the solution. However, if it continues for more than a day or two, somebody better grab me by the scruff of my neck, and show me my own self-delusions or I might just get high... and die...
If I am sharing more "mess" than "message", that means that I am wallowing in my own funky sludge, not helping myself or anyone else.
BE MY EYES AND EARS! PLEASE!
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I may not be 'All That', but I'm always on my mind!
Again ,It wasnt done to me or even a post where I added my 2 cents .I read someone politely and considerately call someone out on their bs, and to that they were cussed at etc... It was just something I read where I was just wondering what ,if anything, everybody else thought. *( I wasnt trying to be hard on ya all I promise! ) I was self searching , Hence the question am I being judgemental.?? Why did I take it so personally when it was neither to me or from me? ? My husband made a comment to me last night that I think may shed some light for me :" why do have to think that everything a person says or does is a personal attack on you?" That along with me picking at him relentlessly, says that I am way too deep into the "its all about me " mode. I need to get out of myself, and back into a Full Recovery program.
It is very important that I call out others when I see something dangerous in their recovery or behavior that could effect someone else's recovery. My approach is as equally important, remember, if my motives are intact, I'm trying to save someones life or at least help them in their recovery. A close look at our traditions can help me in matters like these. When I feel myself getting a little worked up or bent out of shape, I need to remember that I may be looking in a mirror. I may be seeing something about myself that I don't like. It has happened to me many times. :)
Everything that I know is subject to revision, especially what I know about the truth.
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It sure is eazier to get through the moment than it is to get through the aftermath.
I love this thread! Thanks for starting it Carol. Everyone has posted some very good points. I love the NA way of sharing our own Experience, Strength, and Hope. However we also share our UNDERSTANDING of the program and the recovery process. The text says that as our recovery progressed we came to our own understanding.... For some of us that includes calling someone out on thier self-deception 'for thier own good.' Personally I like the passage mentioned by Tisa, "We are each others eyes and ears. When we do something wrong, our fellow addicts help us by SHOWING us what we can not see for ourselves." Doesn't say 'telling.' In this program we lead by example, not direction. It's relatively easy to sit back and take 'pot shots' at other addicts, pointing out their defects and shortcomings. One thing apparent to me in hind sight is that I have learned much more from my mistakes and failures than from my successes. So who am I to deny others an opportunity to learn the same way?
Our diversity is one of our greatest strengths and it takes all of us to carry this mesage to the maximum number of addicts. I appreciate those addicts who have the courage to point out, in a loving, caring way, what I may not be able to see for myself. And by the way, it takes great courage to do this because even when done lovingly, a persons first reaction may well be defensive, including a good cussing out! I appreciate even more those addicts who love me enough to let me bump my own head, make my own mistakes, and find my own way without trying to force their understanding on me. I look at it as an opportunity to practice the principles of tolerance, patience, and compassion on one maybe less mature in the process than oneself.
One more comment: Since freedom for the group (and we are a group) springs from our Traditions, I mention the following.... Tradition Two: For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority, a loving God as he may express himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants, they do not govern.
And what IS our group purpose?
Tradition Five: Each group has but ONE PRIMARY PURPOSE, to carry the message to the addict who still suffers.
Again, great thread!!! Thanks for letting me add my two cents....
Dan
-- Edited by dan h on Sunday 11th of October 2009 02:59:44 AM
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"With a sweet tongue of kindness, you can drag an elephant by a hair." ~Persian Proverb
!! 
and that most of us are in different places in our recovery( or lack thereof). Help me out guys. Am I being judgmental myself? Is not the whole point of this program "honesty,openmindedness and willingness" Without these we are dead in the water.( see I almost erased that sentence because I was afraid of saying the we in that sentence and having someone tell me speak for yourself) 
)
