relationships in sobriety

rumblefish · Veteran Member

relationships in sobriety

BigV · Senior Member

Welp get into a relationship and a few charecter defects that normally wouldn't popup surely will, then your gonna have to deal with that pain of that and if your not prepared for it relapse could occur . So maybe thats why they say to wait, so your better prepared for the inevitable...

drugfree · Senior Member

hey,

People say wait a year but really that is only a suggestion.....

I waited till I could completly love myself... When I could look in the mirror and love what I saw I wasn't ready for a relationship......

Now I've been in relationship for a year and it has been the one of the most difficult things I've had to do. It takes a lot of work to keep the relationship healthy.

Raman · Guru

Ive been waiting 21 years to find a soulmate who Id love without hesitation.

Hmm,,well, and then there were many I met, but never got that feeling, like
"Hey, this ones it"

Ardous stuff, this pining for a lover soulmate, but now Ive come to a point where Im ok with it.
At age 48, Im greatful Ive not become the male version of the gruff spinster, the male version of the staid old maid.
Ive had girlfriends, Ive been married once, Ive had a divorce, and the last one was ended six months ago.

Ive come to believe that the best way for me to live is not to have a woman with the intention of making me complete. I think it is the best way to relate.

Oh so,, and life still goes on,,,
got to get used to living without you,
by my side,
baby cant you see,
I want to I want to be free !

alyqat4 · Senior Member

After I got my year... I met this great guy who had also just gotten his year... We dated for a couple months.. Things got serious pretty fast because OH recovery and OH so spiritual... everyday so lovely and a blessing and isn't life so darn beautiful?? LOL then when we each started delving deeper into the steps we decided to take it easy. He dated someone else for a month and then he and i started hanging out as friends. We literally became inseparable after that, as friends, and now have a very close, intimate relationship, as friends LOL. It is amazing... we are attracted to eachother but have both come to realize that because we gain SO MUCh from eachother exactly the way it is... its enough. it's just love. it needs no label folks... at least not for this addict.

so for me, not dating is ideal. HP, my kids and my friends satisfy my need to feel loved:) anyway that's how I feel today....

Raman · Guru

Thanks for sharing that aly,,needed to here those words
" we are attracted to eachother but have both come to realize that because we gain SO MUCh from eachother exactly the way it is... its enough. it's just love. it needs no label folks... at least not for this addict".

You brought a tear to my eyes dearie,

oniongirl82 · Veteran Member

Hello Family,
Sexual relationships in recovery have been a large part of my story. Then I found relationships with my sponsor, Higher power, support network and most of all myself. Other addicts always told me my Higher Power was getting me ready for someone while getting them ready for me. Then I found out it was true after all those years of hearing it. I worked the program as it was suggested to me, not how I chose to work it and I finally feel like a whole person. Boy was it a process. Now when we go on vacation I wait for him to leave the hotel room so I can have "me time". I spend most hours a day alone and I love it. My sponsor's also very grateful I finally listened to the suggestions.

-- Edited by oniongirl82 on Thursday 6th of August 2009 10:04:04 PM

Tahir · Member

I believe any mainstream activity of life - be it high-stress job, major educational pursuits, handling large amounts of money etc - that we take up in a hurry as soon as we clean up has the potential to distract us from our first priority - working the Program!

I say this because I tried to take major decisions early in my recovery myself, being the typical addict that I am

I took up courses, tried my hand on jobs, continued to deal with big sums of money etc. after just coming out of my using or treatment in a rehab. And I've failed, unable to cope with it all...

Besides suggestions like "wait till a year or two" a very important suggestion that I've also got is this - "wait till you've worked your Fifth Step"

I realized that the more I was clean, the more clarity it brought to my thinking, no doubt. But that was not all. I had to bring clarity to my feelings/emotions and that was not possible for me by merely staying clean. I had to cleanse myself, get to know who I am and pick up tools from this program that I would badly need, especially if I had to be in a relationship, and this I was told was only possible by working the Steps.

Steps taught me how to have a relationship with self, my Higher Power, at home, in the fellowship, and in society/community. By the time I got into a relationship I was only 7-8 months clean I have to be honest here about that... but I had finished my Fifth Step and was working my Sixth. I'm grateful that I had the first 3 Steps to apply in my daily situations in context of my relationships, that I had the Blessing of the Fourth and Fifth to look at the exact nature of my thoughts/motives/emotions/behavior on a daily basis. I got married when I was 10+ months clean, and we just celebrated our 4th Wedding Anniversary a few months back. I strongly believe that if not for the Steps, I wouldn't have lasted a few months in the relationship, maybe I wouldn't have lasted a year clean even

Raman · Guru

Thanks for that honest and refreshing share Oniongirl, made my day !

Congrats Tahir, a great example of steadfast love, yu and S, I daresay I am personal witness to how deeply in love you both are. I think that is the 12 Step Magic in action.

I have truly come to believe that God's will for me, an addict like I, has been to be in and out of romantic relationships. Seems like the Steps have changed the way I think.

My sponsor had indicated at the Fourth Step that all that I knew was subject to revision and possible change. One of the major changes has been in my attitude to runion with women.. I'd once thought that the most honourable thing to do was have an intention of holy matrimony. Now that is not so bad in itself, except that it brought along with it feelings of wanting to be in control, as also depression at the very thought of being tied down for life and the anger and irritation at the prospect of having someone around all the time. I also had another belief that it entailed sex on demand , anywhere !
Sharing property, and other possessions was another point of worry as was the feeling of some sort of bondage.

All that did change in the working of the Steps and I had a good mariage for about 5 years; good because we had a good buzz going, lots of sex and companionship and the birth of Anja my lovely little NA baby., i was feeling confident in recovery and was doing well in career terms. Life and living was feeling great and I could not have asked for more.
Unfortunately my ex-wifes epilepsy deteriorated and she was having severe problems coping with family life. Then one evening we decided it was over, she went to her fathers home while I kept the baby, all of five years with me. I finally let go of my baby's mother with a lot of love and understanding, it took some doing.

After that Ive been in a few romances, some short some longer all of a different flavour.
That wanting to possess by marriage is long past. I am reminded that "we need not make fools of ourselves by living out to non-existent virtues" (Basic text). Marriage is not the only way I can possibly relate to a woman. She can be a mate, friend, fellow,platonic etc.
Seems like marriage comes at the end of the process and I am also very open to being in romances that are based on give and take and live and let live policies.

I love living in the open question,, and only God knows what will happen !!!

-- Edited by Raman on Friday 7th of August 2009 07:53:22 AM

Tahir · Member

Thanks for sharing your experiences so honestly Raman, at the end of it all, I guess it's all learning and evolving, I've read a member share this at an online forum - the best way to know what a relationship is all about is to be in one... lol...

yeah I've seen many arranged marriages (very prevalent in this part of the world) where I see that the two in such coupleships just live out a virtue that is incomprehensible to me as yet

Their marriage is arranged, and after marriage they have to get to know each other, and somehow start loving each other... and down the years, it becomes a marriage of convenience, a kind of enforced moral ethic which is indeed a non-existent virtue like you indicated above, or maybe not... you never know unless you've been through that I guess...

To keep it simple, it has helped me to love and be with the one I love just because I want to

Whether what I want continues to happen or not, the Steps make it easier to accept, and since it's happening now at this moment, well, that's all there is to it, the magic of the present moment...

I've always found more peace and acceptance whenever while turning it over, I've said to my Higher Power - either way, I'll gladly accept your Will for me. And when I completely surrender this way, there's not much of drama involved if things don't go my way. But then, being an addict, it's not always that I get to feel such points of serenity... and on those occasions when I can't, it's again a powerful learning, with such impact that it's hard to forget such wisdom learned. As they say, whatever we learn by paying the price, cannot be gained pain-free

Raman · Guru

Thanks Tahir.
Yes, I do sincierly believe that social acceptability does not equeal recovery.

I dont know to whom you are reffering to in terms of arranged marriage and what you have written about it.
That was not so in my case.
I was introduced to my ex by a cousin sister and her husband. Then followed a six month courtship, and all seemed ok. One of the driving factors was that i believed this was the next correct thing to do in my life. I had six years clean and quite serene then, I had a good service record, my management of the nursery school that i ran with my other was going well and my side business in antiques and watch and clock repairs was doing fine.

My whole extended family and recovering family seemed excited by the fact that Raman was willing to settle down into a "domesticated" (****) existence. And that was the trap, the trap of respectability that i fell into, believeing that marriage will sort out a lot of my inadequacies.

Now we are not discussing whether marriage is a good or bad thing ; basically it is about my motivations. My attitudes will decide how accepting I am of outcomes, especially the twists and turns that I did not see in the original script..
And in that marriage, as in all else that Ive experienced,, life was just that one step ahead. Now I am convinced that that marriage and it's course and it's outcome were all exactly as it was supposed to be.

So now back to basics and self-possesion is a priority, and though the need for approval runs deep and strong, I know it is a mistake to look to marriage or relationship for a sense of myself. My thinking has changed, and the rewards have been manifold,

I will never exchange this freedom for the illusion of comfort and security that marriage and relationship seem to promise but never actually deliver, except in fleeting moments.

And that is valid for this addict !

My theory is that the best way to know what a relationship is to be in it and then be out of it,,,
and then possibly be back in it again and if that dosent happen, just move on as lightly as I can.

Last nite I had dinner with an NA pal and his gf. they met in treatment and even had a baby, a lovely little angel.
And the way the are relating to each other, what they share of attitudes and feelings and beliefs is a research data for me. I will not be awarded a masters for this, but having done Research Methods in my masters, i am now greatful to have an outsiders view of the phenomena in romantic relationships.

Like it says in the Text
"We need to be emotionally detached in order to solve problems " and Im really getting perspective on the dynamics, problems and issues in relationships with these two as study material.
And the ethics of it is that they are both aware that I am observing their relationship and are both free sharers.

-- Edited by Raman on Saturday 8th of August 2009 05:59:18 AM

-- Edited by Raman on Saturday 8th of August 2009 06:00:36 AM

-- Edited by Raman on Sunday 9th of August 2009 09:05:32 AM

Tahir · Member

hey that's awesome to hear about your Master's research, inspiring

There's a lot of collective experiences of hundreds of couples who have experienced relationship recovery through the 12 Steps. In fact, I've been a part of this fellowship for more than 4 years now. It's amazing stuff, check it out Raman, maybe it will help your research - www.recovering-couples.org

Coming back to marriage, I guess that depends on how one perceives the concept of marriage... for me, marriage is a union of 2 souls that goes deeper than the physical relationship and the social/moral implications. For me, it's the merger of people at the level of all dimensions - be it physical, mental, emotional, social or spiritual. And that means in includes any relationship for me - be it husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend, live-in partners etc. not necessarily confined to what commonly is perceived and acknowledged as marriage. And sex is merely the culmination of this union, a consequence of intimacy that has been established already. But that's just how I perceive it and speak from, so I guess I tend to think that others also perceive it the way I do

Anyway, I like what you shared about seeking social approval and completeness from a relationship/the other person in the relationship. That's where I believe Steps can help us. I was told by a few dear oldtimers and my Sponsors, and have come to believe that when I work the Steps, I find my wholeness, my complete being, I learn to live in contentment with self. Then when I reach out to another in a relationship, be it romantic or otherwise, I merely reach out to share that completeness with another. Of course the universal principles of interdependency are inevitable bringing in its own benefits, but still the fact that one could develop a relationship with self, based on the principles contained in the Steps, does grant one the wisdom to know the difference.

There is this interesting passage in the NA book IT WORKS that I personally relate and identify with a lot, that I would like to share here, I do not remember the exact wording of it but the gist of it is:

"Although all of us need love and attention of others, we do not have to depend on others to provide what we can only find within ourselves. By applying our program to our shortcomings, our romantic relationships undergo an astounding change, that we are finally begin to give of ourselves and are free to enjoy another's companionship without self-obsession blocking us. We finally see that all the devices we use to keep other people away are more often than not are the underlying cause of the pain we suffer in relationships."

I actually find myself still experience the pain that the last part of the above sentence from our literature speaks about, especially in context of friends/other members in the fellowship.

Well, am I glad that there's a place to freely share all this, and gain more awareness and balance through others' experiences as well. I seldom see members share or talk about these aspects in the fellowship you know as if it's taboo to be sharing the joy of relationships... lol... And I find your shares refreshingly honest and insightful Raman, and yes, a special thanks to Rumblefish who actually started this topic

Raman · Guru

Ha, ha, dear Rumble's gone silent.
Thanks for the lnk, not only will it hopefully help my resarch but also give me, a recovering addict, a holistic perspective on romantic relationships.

LeeU · Guru

Thanks Tahir, much useful wisom and a pleasure-to-read, as always. Congratulations on your marriage!!!

Raman · Guru

My approval seeking behaviour carried me deeper into addiction.
What i have learned in recovery is that seeking and recieving approval so that I feel self-worth, to bolster my ego is like sitting down to an imaginary meal. Though I am invited to eat all I wnt where is the food ? Nomatter how much imaginary food is served, i will never satisfy my hunger. I will leave the meal hungry.
This however does'nt seem so apparent when it comes to hunger for aproval. Believing I cannot be happy without the approval of others is like believing that I can see beuty only through someone else's eyes.
Time and time aain I have had the same spiritual lesson shown to me; no one can give me that which can only be found within myself.
The first step towards self- possession is admitting that i sought approval of others because I thought that if others felt good about me, than I can feel that same way about myself.
Looking for myself in the eyes of others kept me from growing; emotionally, mentally, psychically and spiritually.
The point is, what good is any feeling I may have of myself if it lasts only as long as others agree to it ?
That has been the bane, shortcoming and negative aspect in all my relationships with women till this day.
The important thng however has been that the 12 Steps have alleviated the condition, the power of people pleasing and approval seeking behaviour and habit has reduced to a minimum.
It has a place in many areas of my life like I need to get tutors aproval in order to do well in my studies, the marks they score me are based on that. However the process dosent lead me dpere into addict acting out because it is in place.
In carrying the areas concience to the regional level, i have to get approval and support, but because that is the process of carrying a mandate as per group conscience and decisions, it is not a negative.
I have to seek regular approval and affirmation of plans from my daughter and mother as they are the only blood family I have. Because I am in league with them in what I am doing,
there is no false character being built up here. I am morally and spiritually responsible to keep them informed oflans and if they se flaws in it, I must take notice.
It is basically in all my intimate, romantic relationships with girlfriends, and ex-wife do I see this fear of becoming "no one" without them put me in the position of a still suffering addict !

Raman · Guru

Been checking stastics on arranged marriages.
Seems like most of the world, other than the "Christian" or "Western" countries, follow that tradition.
This is a sizeable majority, almost 67 to 70 percent of the world's population.
There must be some sense to it, otherwise it would not have lasted.
Even in India, except for the motely westernized sections of society and rare few others, arranged marriages are still the norm.

WHO published stastics in 2005 that the divorce rate, worldwide, for arranged marriages is
about 28 percent whereas in the western syle love- marriages, that rate is surprisingly high at 55 to 60 percent.
Of that 55-60 percent, though the majority are still the older couples that were married for many years and are now going through a divorce, a large percent still are those that married after being in love first.

Judgement cannot be passed on what is appropriate and each culture will continue to do as it has, believeing that to be the most appropriate.

Luckily for us in NA, we are encouraged to have our own faith. It is what works for us that will work for us.
However, when a recovering addict crosses the line and believes that others too must follow that line of thinking, self-righteousness rears it's ugly head and makes mischief !

I have a set of Principles that I dearly hold close, which are grounded in reality and take me towards my ideals

Raman · Guru

For that I am greatful as a recovering addict can be for freedom !

Tisa2U · Senior Member

So, can we assume, with all the acuity of retrospection, that I shouldn't have hooked up with (literally) the very first man I saw at an NA meeting?
Or the second guy mere days after breaking up with the first?
LOL!

Taking a couple of years alone was a very good thing for me, when I came back from relapse. A lot of counselling was also beneficial for me.

What did they say in "28 Days"?

"After a year in recovery, get a plant... if, in another year, the plant is still alive, get a pet... if, in another year, both the plant and the pet are still alive, then you MIGHT be ready to have a relationship"

I might never be ready!

DeanC · Guru

The sad part about this is that neither NA or AA gives us the tools we need to have successful relationships.
Oh sure there are some general information but we really need to look elsewhere for more help with relationship issues.

rumblefish · Veteran Member

Tahir,
Since this posting,
I've attended many meetings...

I met an old lady who had 30+ years sober
she met her husband in the program, they were
married 20+ years.

They were together until his passing last year,
she stayed sober through all that.

I'm glad you shared what you did...
Congratulations on your 4th wedding anniversary!!

-- Edited by rumblefish on Thursday 20th of August 2009 04:40:48 PM

-- Edited by rumblefish on Thursday 20th of August 2009 04:43:11 PM

alyqat4 · Senior Member

thank you Tisa! I am so grateful that this is where i'm at today. i see so many people compromising their sanity for a relationship... i'd like to think i'll be able to maintain this outlook but who knows if that perfect specimen walked in... LOL- just gotta keep living for today. No person is worth my serenity. God. I'm addicted to that stuff biggrin

Raman · Guru

Great observations Tisa, thanks for sharing those.
I really liked the one about the plant and the pup, Ive done both.

Yes, relationships of the intimate variety are not a precondition for recovery.
I can recovery without a girlfriend or being married and if I am in one I try and enjoy it.

That said, me being an addict of the type I am will also be disocntented at times.
Just when I have convinced Im ok single, I may walk thru a train station and see a couple in love and think I'd like to do that too.
Even 8 months ago, when I was with my girlfriend, Ive seen people single and thought
"Maybe that is what I need to be doing".

Over a period of time Ive learnt not to place too muc value pon the opinions and prejudices of others.
Single people will be frowned upon, they will be judged ad they will be held at a distance by the others.
Ive seen a few recovering people happily married or in itimacy who instead of being greatful for what they have will try and pounce on the singles, berate and critisize them and think it is a form of entertainment to do so.

I will always have an open mind, open to meeting a woman who can feel my heart's desire for her and with whom I have chemistry.
Till then Im enjoying being single, Ill daresay Ive never felt more Spiritual in my life !
It may be because after leading a hectic, fast paced life for many ,many years, Im now in a space where I dont have to quarrel, argue, make up, be passionate about and all the rigmarole of having a girlfriend or wife.

I used to dread singleness, and then it happens and I am forced to accept it.
The oher side of it is that Ive always wondered why all the Great Spiritual Masters were usually single,
Jesus, Buddha (after he renounced his family and kingdom did he attain enlightenment),
Sankara (founder of the Montheistic philosophy of India) and amny more.

As I go through this phase of my recovery, I know that there will be the next woman coming along in the not too far future, so I will wait patiently and enjoy being a single !

Whew, what a life !

Raman · Guru

Thanks for that share Alygat, you reminded me today ofhow insane it can be in unhealthy relationships.
And oh Tisa, I really love you in recovery.
From what I read of your share, I think you are ready; a very loving, caring woman is craving to find Mr.right, so beware that true love hits you right between the eyes !!!
Ha,ha,ha, good luck ! A
nd please keep an eye out for thay guy in NA meetings too. Another addict may be the best bet !
And in saying that, I hope I keep what Im giving away !

-- Edited by Raman on Thursday 20th of August 2009 06:30:30 PM

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