Hey Jana, You've asked this a few times and I understand your pet peeve about it but here's a few differences. A great deal of the time, the addict is using illegally, which comes with many different stigmas and counter culture problems such as relation to criminals, crime, hiding out, selling illegal drugs to support their habits, transmitable diseases, being afraid to come forward, jail sentences... An addict is a lot more likely to switch addiction (via different drugs) which makes denial a tougher problem ala (I can quit that drug any time I chose... Withdrawal from alcohol and drugs varry widely and the following depression after some drugs (like opiates) proves a formidable obstacle to staying clean as the addict often feels like they were happier while using.
-- Edited by DeanC on Thursday 21st of May 2009 08:51:28 PM
I have a great deal of respect for Dean. And Dean if you didnt know that already you do now. I want to throw another take on the table.
A great deal of the time the addict who uses alcohol , uses it illegally. By being out in public ,away from home and drunk . Many addicts who drink make a decision to drive while impaired. Many addicts whos drug of choice is alcohol engage in illegal activity as a normal day to day way to live. Cheating, lying and stealing to get one more day unmolested by " the man ." Many addicts who drink hide out to cover thier abuse. The withdrawl period for the heavy alcohol user is more fatal with alcohol than any other drug. I dont have anything official but in my gut I dont feel the depression is different much from one drug to the next. Many Many times the substituting of drugs involves alcohol.
So Im thinking you know by now. I see no difference in the drugs we used. Dope is dope is dope . If we drank it ,snorted it.shot it or smoked it . It all got us here.
__________________
The fundamental delusion of humanity , is to suppose that I am here and you are out there .
the difference is this= an alcoholic can buy a drink for a dollar and sit in nice pub, chat with friends and still pretend to feel great and all (inspite of the there being @drinking prblems@)_ ,,,, but and addict like me needs to pay 20 bucks for smack, and then sit in a dirty place and chase it, afraid of getting coaugh, isolating more and more et.etcetc...Hoho !!
Well that said,, I believe that other than symptoms all addicted people are basicaly the same in kind, sad, mad, sick but seen by the world as morally deficient, weak charactered, all implying that wea re not exercising enough control.
Well, we have been informed, addiction is a dis-ease, the drug can be anything !!
__________________
Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
the difference is this= an alcoholic can buy a drink for a dollar and sit in nice pub, chat with friends and still pretend to feel great and all (inspite of the there being @drinking prblems@)_ ,,,, but and addict like me needs to pay 20 bucks for smack, and then sit in a dirty place and chase it, afraid of getting coaugh, isolating more and more et.etcetc...Hoho !!
Well that said,, I believe that other than symptoms all addicted people are basicaly the same in kind, sad, mad, sick but seen by the world as morally deficient, weak charactered, all implying that wea re not exercising enough control.
Well, we have been informed, addiction is a dis-ease, the drug can be anything !!
that's what I getting at, without sounding like some kinda of elitist I believe that it's a very demeaning process for the street addict, very tough on the self esteem. There only defense is "I don't care". After a decade or two or "I don't care" it's hard to turn that around.
Yes Dean,, you do make a good point. Haha yes,, we dont want to sound elitist, but there it is !
Moreover, dont you agree that the chances of an addict having to sell drugs or body or be in jail or a loony bin are greater than an true blue alky's ?
Which again relates to the self-esteem point you made !!
All that said and done,,Im a strong believer in this percept,, nothong will ever change this conviction = Identification at the level of feelings, which is called empathy, is a healing force and a Power greater than ourselves, for all addicted people !!
__________________
Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
And Jana likes having her chain jerked by Dean! ROFL Actually, I've never posed the question as a stand alone. I wanted to leave the AA/NA controversy, the clean and sober controversy, et al, out of it.
I understand that it is much more socially acceptable to be a socialite sipping cosmopolitans in the local upper class hotel bar at noon than to be in an alley with a needle in one's neck or a crack pipe held in dirty, blistered fingers. I get that. I also get that it's easier to get a beer than a rock (in some neighborhoods anyway)...
For purposes of recovery, however, there is no discernable difference that I can put my finger on yet I continually, on an NA messageboard, hear references to alcholics as if they are different, have a different disease, are separate from addicts. I think that's confusing to newcomers. In fact, I know it is.
__________________
The truth does not change based on my inability to stomach it - Flannery O'Connor
My happiness grows in direct proportion to my acceptance and in inverse proportion to my expectations - Michael J. Fox
one brain, complex chemical soup, different receptors, neurons, endorphins etc etc, acting in different ways with different substances, triggers, and internal forces
in other words-no real diff, mostly just surface stuff, some physical stuff, and much socioacultural stuf, IMHO
__________________
From dying and surviving to living and thriving. LeeU
For purposes of recovery, however, there is no discernable difference that I can put my finger on yet I continually, on an NA messageboard, hear references to alcholics as if they are different, have a different disease, are separate from addicts. I think that's confusing to newcomers. In fact, I know it is.
I can see how you'd feel that way, and it's definitely a double standard. My advice to you is to make it your life's mission to attend as many AA group conscious meetings as you can and convince them that a drug addict that has never had a drink of alcohol is an alcoholic.
I can only speak for myself and say that drugs or alcohol -- whatever it is, when it gets in my bloodstream I think that it's God. It's unconscious but I begin to worship it. So there's no difference in my book...but that's just it: In MY book. A lot of people seem to have a big hang up about it.
The alcoholic S**ts his pants right in front of you and grins.
I did both at the same time a few times Eeeeeks God glad thats over.
Though I may die a slow death from some other disease thats has me puking and shatting at the same time oh wait I had the flu once that had me doing that
ITs all about changing HOW WE FEEL, drugs, alcohol, sex, hell even selling drugs can be an addiction I just spoke with a person tonight who has that problem.
I used to be addicted to armed robbery SERIOUSLY I loved the rush and the feeling of power and the money of course used to buy drugs but I knew my life was going to be cut real short doing that one someone was going to blast me
Usually in AA meetings you hear references to wife, husband married, in-laws and all that but in NA it's mostly girlfirends, boyfriends, partner.
And een if the addict be married and all, to the in-laws this addict is mots probably an out-law ! So different from the alcoholics in-laws who'd say " You know so and so is such a nice person and so good at the job, family etc but once that drink gets in,,,sigh ! Wish that problem will just disapear and pone moring x gets up and is rid of the drinking forever".
And heres the implication of that for the first Step = Although an addict will most probably admit "I am powerless over my addiction and my life is unmanageable" an alcholic on the other hand may actually say "yes, Im porewless over alcohol,,,, but it's my wife thats become unmanageable " !!! Ha,ha,ha jest,jest jest !!
-- Edited by Raman on Monday 25th of May 2009 05:41:21 AM
__________________
Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
another difference is the street names ,, alcoholics are called bozos , winos , drunks etc. meant to picture an otherwise harmless body ! addicts as u know are called junkies,, all sorts of evil connotations are associated with that label,,purse snatching, robbing, dope selling , murderous fiends ! Gosh what a differance,,,,,the stigma ,,,the ostracization,, the untouchability is more in the case of an addict,, we all know that and agree Im sure !
-- Edited by Raman on Wednesday 27th of May 2009 05:30:13 PM
__________________
Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
one brain, complex chemical soup, different receptors, neurons, endorphins etc etc, acting in different ways with different substances, triggers, and internal forces
