don't know how to react or what to say...

singingfool · Member

don't know how to react or what to say...

LeeU · Guru

Have some coffee, youre gonna need it! Really hurts, doesn't it? Feel helpless, frustrated, sorrowful, scared, angry? Welcome to the club. What can you do, what can you say? Not much, beyond "I love you", however that gets said. Her bones really do ache...hard to watch. She's going to be in too much physical and psychic pain to have much appreciation right now for things like you being proud of her or offers of encouragement...don't take it personally.

Hope she does go to rehab. Make sure they are offering her a nicotine patch (unless a doctor advised against) if she is in forced withdrawal from cigs...that's almost more harsh than the other stuff and all if it combined is truly awful. Don't bring her contraband (lighter/smokes)...great way for her to get herself thrown out. Make sure the "straight to rehab" is absolutely nailed...by Fri. night she'll probably try anything to not do it. If she'll let a good friend visit, that might help.

My daughter has been in the same place as yours and I have probably been in pretty much the same place as you as a parent. Mine didn't make it to rehab tho. Feel free to email me if you wish. zumagurl@hotmail.com
And pray...a LOT! Many of us will be praying too.

singingfool · Member

Thanks for the prayers. It does hurt. I think what hurts us more is the little girl we're raising of hers. She's two. My daughter relapsed when she was 3 months old. We've had her since.

My husband and I have done pretty good over the last 5 years dealing with our daughter's drug addiction. We've gone to meetings and tried to educate ourselves as much as possible. It's hard "detaching" and all that "tough love" stuff but we've been able to get somewhat of a life back together.

Now...the baby is getting older. She knows who mommy is. Every time our daughter visits, the baby completely comes apart when she leaves. It's getting harder and harder to comfort her. I feel like we're back to square one with our emotions on our sleeves.

Right now I think it's emotional because we told our daughter we'll do everything we can to support her sobriety. If she walks away this time (this is #3) she can't call us or visit any more. We have been on bended knees praying she'll follow through. We are willing to walk away but it's like watching someone die right before your eyes. We're praying for a miracle.

She does have a smoking patch. She's also on antibiotics for an abcess in her arm (dirty needle or not cleaning her arm with alcohol). As for having a friend visit. I wish she had a friend. She walked away from her friends years ago. A couple of people do still keep in touch with us and ask about her.

Keep us in your prayers.

drugfree · Senior Member

hey singingfool, I relate to your daughters experiances and what she is going through. My parents did eventually cut all ties with me, they couldn't watch me kill myself anymore. It was the best thing in my life, even though it seemed very harsh in the moment. I ended up trying to do it for myself, no more calling mommy and daddy to come pick me up from whatever place i've gotten myself stuck in. no more would they save my butt and take me back to the psych ward or into their home so i could eat. i had to reach out for myself, find the resources for myself, which really proved that i was determined to get clean this time. see when the world was being taken care of by outsiders i never had to worry i never was on my own really, (even though i lived on the streets)....... so when i was ready i did it, i found a different psych ward in a different city and from that point i reached out for the hand of na, and was well recieved by some. I found somewhere to live in a clean house, i located all the resources i needed. See when i found help for myself, i didn't want to give it up, it meant something to me. When it was handed to me, i just didn't care. So now i'm 17months clean, and my parents are back in my life.... we talk frequently and i'm trusted and accepted in their home. I proved to them that i'm serious about recovery and today they can support me.

maybe that helped maybe it didn't i just related to the situation good luck and i'll keep your family in my prayers

singingfool · Member

It did help. Thank you. When I read the statistics of rehab success rates it's really disheartening. I am just so happy to hear of some healing. You're right, this has been a terrible thing to watch. It has a way of consuming families. As parents, we want to fix everything and make it better. As a mother, I can't even find the words to describe how it feels to be helpless and watch my daughter suffer.

Through this experience, I have realized that all any of us really have are ourselves and our HP. I've always believed but never really knew until the last few years. Nothing would make me happier than to be able to trust her again. I'm so happy you decided to change your life. Life is too short and we waste too much time. Family is important to me. I look forward to a time when she'll just let me love her again.

17 months is awesome!! Keep doing what you're doing. Live in the moment. Don't think about yesterday or tomorrow. This moment is what counts. You've made someone very happy tonight with your thoughts. Thanks again.

Jana40503 · Senior Member

My heart aches for you. I know how hard it is watching a spouse deal with relapse, I can't even imagine my child going through it and my children are very young. Your story could be mine someday.

The ball is in her court right now. Only she can choose to get through detox, only she can choose to continue on into recovery and get better. I wish, more than anything, that we could love people clean or force them to stay clean but it just doesn't work.

I suggest NarAnon for you if it's available, if not, Al Anon. You might call your local NA Helpline and see if there is a woman in recovery willing to pay her a visit. Nobody can understand an addict like another addict.

It is a family destroyer, the disease of addiction. Something like 9 other people are directly affected by a using addict. We tell ourselves that we're only hurting ourselves but it is just one of many lies we tell ourselves, that we actually believe, that allows us to justify the self destruction.

My prayers are with you, your family and your daughter.

{{{ hugs}}}

gettingbackup · Veteran Member

god, i hope she makes it. but dont despair if she fails. like u said, youve read the statistics.

i do know a boy who made it. trial and error, drove his mom NUTZ.. but by god, by 29 yrs old... he made it.... only took 10 years.

hes now an engineer and a pilot. the mom just wouldnt let go... but she was tore up from it all. he was a master maniplator. learned behaviour from dad im told.

anyway, they say, WE DONt CHOOSE DRUGS

DeanC · Guru

singing,

imo the best thing that you can do now is to give her her life to manage. To the extent that we try and "help" others when they don't especially ask us, we are sending them a message that we don't approve of them or what they're doing. This, in and of itself is a trigger to use and a self esteem destroyer. Not blaming you here just saying that you very well could be doing more harm than good by continuing to "help" or suggest. The last thing that you'd want to see, feel, or believe is that she is using against you in a rebellious manner.

If it were me, I'd act as if she was a friend, instead of a daughter, and love and except her just the way that she is with no reservations. I wouldn't mention using or recovery at all even if she brings it up tell her that you're obviously not the person that can help her, the She is and she knows where the help is.

Make a goal of enjoying Your Life every day. Your job as a parent is done, she is an adult now. My son, who is also 22 yo, has only visited me 4 times in the nearly 4 years since he left for college. I have never seen his grades, and didn't even know that he took a year off until he told me a year later. My point is, that the biggest gift that you can give your daughter is Her Life and self esteem from her knowing that you trust her to manage it.

I watched my x-mother in law run my x-wife's life well after we split up when she was 25 yo. My x-wife had no confidence (still doesn't) in her own decisions because her mother always either made them for her or criticized the few that she made. One of the decisions that her mother made (and the one that sent me out the door for good) was for my x-wife to abort our second child. Nothing that I could say could convince my x-wife to go against her mothers wishes. Like "Mommy Dearest".

One other thing. The initial incentive for me to get clean and sober was the birth of my son. It took me 2 years of trying, after he was born, to "get it". Never did I think that someone else would take care of my son for me, if I thought that perhaps I'd lose my son, through foster homes or adoption, I'd probably have gotten clean sooner. This a tough question, is taking care of her daughter for her enabling? If that child was to enter the foster home system or be put up for adoption, do you think that your daughter might have some more incentive to get clean? I do. That's a tough one, but
It's something that I would consider. A year or two for the girl in a foster home might put some fire under her mother's ass. The flip side of that is that if you weren't taking care of her daughter for her, you might not feel as entitled to "help" her, and it would be easier for you to get on with your life. You could certainly still partisipate in your grand daughters life a couple weekends a month, like a normal grandparent might, through the foster home system.

-- Edited by DeanC on Sunday 12th of April 2009 07:55:58 AM

singingfool · Member

Well Dean, I hear what you're saying. I think you're right about "the self esteem destroyer." My daughter and I have always been really close her whole life. When this whole drug use started (5 yrs ago) I was pretty clear to her about my disapproval. She described it as "like a trip to an amusement park." It was fun for her and she was acting on her independence and ability to "make her own mistakes." Honestly, I thought it was a phase and she would snap out of it. She does seem to struggle with pleasing me vs the heroin. It's never about her anymore. She's in survival mode, I think.

Honestly, I'm bitter as hell towards her boyfriend. He was the one who introduced it all to her. She is still with him. He's the father of her child. He's an abuser in every aspect of the word.....as is his family. It's terrible to think of the things she will subject herself to for that next fix. Don't get me wrong....she is responsible for her own decisions but I certainly think he should be held accountable for his part.

I don't think there's a right or a wrong way to manage this...for any of us. It seems to be a little different for everyone. I've made a lot of mistakes along the way but I hope the end result is nothing short of a miracle. I pray for strenth, courage and guidance daily. I make a conscious effort to give it to my HP multiple times a day. It gets me through the day.

As for her daughter, she's been in our home since the day she came home from the hospital. My daughter relapsed when she was 3 months old. Caring for this child may be enabling my daughter but we would never consider anything else. It was a topic of conversation early on. My husband and I decided this child would have all the love her mommy had. We need her as much as she needs us. She's the light in our lives.

I've thought about what you said and I don't want to be her friend. I want to be her mother. It would be unnatural for me to me anything else. I've always told her our love is unconditional. That doesn't mean we approve of anything. It means we will love her no matter what. I know she knows that. She has a solid foundation and knows that in her soul. She knows it hurt me to tell her not to call or come around. I believe she would agree it's best. It's all up to her and her HP. She knows that. She is spiritual. She has all the tools and knows exactly what she needs to do. I do take some comfort in that. Our separation is a safety issue. She isn't safe to be around. She doesn't question our love for her.

No matter what the next minutes, hours, days, weeks, months or years will bring she knows someone truly loves her and wants happiness for her. We're her biggest fans.

In this moment I'm thankful for those times at night when I close my eyes and feel her in my soul. Sometimes I smile. Sometimes I cry. I do miss her.

Wow, that was windy. I guess I needed that.

Blithe Spirit · Veteran Member

singingfool, you may want to locate some naranon (http://nar-anon.org/naranongroups.htm) and/or alanon (http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/) meetings in your area. There are lots of people there who share your struggle and can offer their experience, strength, and hope. Our experience here is a bit different in that we are the addicts; we are your daughter. All the best.

DeanC · Guru

singingfool wrote:

As for her daughter, she's been in our home since the day she came home from the hospital. My daughter relapsed when she was 3 months old. Caring for this child may be enabling my daughter but we would never consider anything else. It was a topic of conversation early on. My husband and I decided this child would have all the love her mommy had. We need her as much as she needs us. She's the light in our lives.

I've thought about what you said and I don't want to be her friend. I want to be her mother. It would be unnatural for me to me anything else. I've always told her our love is unconditional. That doesn't mean we approve of anything. It means we will love her no matter what.

Singing,

Does your daughter and the baby's father pay child support? The court (and you) should require it. It they failed to do so after ordered by the court, they'd lose their drivers liscence (and their freedom) in most states. That might make it a bit more difficult to get around and buy heroin etc... and so would paying child support. Addicts are always looking for good enablers to take care of financial (and other time consuming) responsibilities to free up money and time for their daily oblivion. If they aren't contributing financially to the childs upbringing and you are allowing that, wouldn't you consider that enabling?

In my above comments I said something like "treat her like you would a friend" meaning respecting her boundaries as an adult. Doesn't sound like you're ready for that. Pardon me for asking the hard questions and writing my opinions (formed mostly by reading John Bradshaw books) A excellent book by JB that I highly reccomend, so that you can understand better about dysfuntional family dynamics and addiction, is "On the Family". This is the book he did a 24 part Television series of lectures on PBS back in the mid to late 80's when I got clean and sober.

http://www.amazon.com/Bradshaw-Family-Creating-Solid-Self-Esteem/dp/1558744274

-- Edited by DeanC on Monday 13th of April 2009 07:57:09 PM

singingfool · Member

Thank you Blithe Spirit, I do meet with others in my situation. It's just helpful for me to get the addict perspective also. After all, addicts have families that have been on this journey too. This site also gives me hope that one day my daughter will be one of you, working a program and helping others as well as herself.

Dean, no child support. It's a little complicated. Until now, I had guardianship of the baby. In KY, that means all parties agreed that she would be cared for by me. It does not include child support. It was only meant to be temporary. Two years later, we have asked for custody. Daughter has agreed. Dad is fighting it. Child support should be ordered once custody changes. Dad never had a drivers license. Daughter does but they've never had a car. They live in a seedy part of town. They walk, take the bus or friends transport them. I agree that I've played a big part in their ability to use. We're trying to change that by stepping aside and letting her live her life without us a phone call away.

I do appreciate your thoughts. It gives me something to think about. I guess you're right about me not being ready to respect her boundaries. I see my daughter that is dying right in front of me. I'm capable of walking away from her but not capable, right now, of walking beside her. That book sounds interesting. I'll check it out. Thanks. I'm open to learning what I can and getting feedback.

Just a note....I know this site is for people like my daughter. I don't mean to intrude. It has been good for me to chat with some of you and try to better understand. I'll move on if this has been inappropriate.

DeanC · Guru

Hello Singing,

I'm glad that I didn't offend by sharing what was on my mind. I know that it's a tough situation and although I've not had to walk in your shoes, I've contemplated it many times. I've gone through some changes along the same lines with my son cutting communication with me for 3-6 months at a time. I went through a mild depression that lasted a year and a half after he moved out and went on to college. (he is totally self supporting through his prepaid college, working, and student grants etc..) It was painful and I had to keep reminding myself that I have a life, that's independent from his. He doesn't owe me anything and visa versa. I want so badly to give him a advise on everything and he doesn't want to hear it. He needs to figure it out for himself and make his own mistakes like I did at his age. When I was 22, I didn't really want anything to do with my parents, especially my father. It's helpful to think back and remember how you felt at that age. How smart that you thought that you were, and independent etc....

I had a girlfriend when I was a teenager. She was beautiful redhead and I thought that she was an angel. We lost track of each other until I chanced to meet her again at 22 yo. We were star struck to see each other and went on a few dates and I was ecstatic. After the third date she told me that she had a boyfriend! He was the father of her child, a heroin addict, a low life, and a fatal attraction stalking menace to her and that it seemed like a permanent situation. I could go on about my hesitation to get away from her and the situation and the pain I went through over it, but I learned that she was just as sick as he was. And after reading that book that I linked to, I learned why.

I had another girlfriend (my first) a beautiful blond named Jeanie who looked just like Barbara Eden. We got together in 8th and were inseparable until about 11th grade. Our breakup caused me to dive deeper into drinking and drugs. That's another story. After getting clean and sober at age 29, I went to see Jeannie's mother to tell her that I'd been clean and sober for 2 years. I knew that Jeannie was living with a guy, in his Dad's basement and that the two of them were heroin addicts, directly from a friend who was dating Jeannie's boyfriend's sister. So I told Jeannie's mom, who knew that Jeannie was taking drugs but didn't know what kind, that she was taking heroin. Her mother asked me what could she do? I told almost nothing accept to know a treatment center to take her to in a hurry if she asked for help. There is a very small window of time before the addict changes their mind and wants to use again.

1 year ago, just before my 30th High school reunion, I learned that Jeannie had died. I was sad and the information that I got was vague and I assumed that it was because of her addiction. Recently through facebook, I've connected with hundreds of people that I went to school with. Jeannie's friend Patty, told me what had happened. It turned out that Jeannie did ask for help, got into treatment and was clean for awhile and came down with stomach cancer. She did all the chemo and other treatments and was supposedly give a clean bill of health. 6 more months past that she stayed clean, and one night she complained of servere stomach pains. Her boyfriend called 911, but Jeannie died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. Were these complication contributed to by 20 years of using and the lifestyle that went along with it? Who knows. It's just sad that people die.

singingfool · Member

Hi Dean,

Thanks for sharing. You know, I'm no stranger to using drugs and living the risky lifestyle. I was young once, too. Haha! I thought I would be an old granny sitting in a rocker smoking pot. It hasn't turned out that way for me. I ran with the "cool" crowd and dabbled in a lot of pills and snorting. All my friends did the same. We are all still friends and none of us use. I don't know when we stopped exactly but it seems to be around the time we all started having kids.

My daughter says our brains are wired differently. Maybe she's right. I didn't know it at the time, but my daughter's dad was an addict. I actually learned about it when she was 17 or so and wanted to connect with her long lost biological father. I was shocked. Then I got scared because she had started hanging with a bad crowd and I knew she was taking some kind of pills. He thought I knew he had drug issues. He did go to the doctor for every little ache and pain but I never put the two together. He was going to a methadone clinic when we caught up with him. It's hard for me when I see how my choices in life may have affected her (the gene pool). She was two when I met my current husband. He was a recovering alcoholic and has relapsed once (briefly) in our 20 years together.

In many ways, my daughter saved my life. When I held her in my arms, I knew my life was changing. Her dad and I parted ways, I looked to my family for support and we lived our first two years together alone. She taught me a lot. I feel pretty certain that things would have been different for me if she hadn't come along. I was 28, almost 29 when she was born. That number sure comes up a lot.

That's ironic that your girlfriend looked like Barbara Eden and her name was Jeannie. She must have been a beauty. That must be awful to lose someone you once cared so much for like that. It is sad. I wish we could all see our futures so we could change things while we're younger. Each generation seems to be more daring than the last. I just hope your friend made peace with herself in the end and those around her were supportive.

I try to appreciate what I have. I'm learning that things can always be worse. I'm coming to terms with not having my daughter in my life right now. Things will work out the way they are supposed to. I try not to ask why. I tell myself that if I'm not part of the solution then I'm part of the problem. Stepping away from her was my only choice right now. Going through this with my daughter has forced me to take a long hard look at my own life. We all have issues and we all have demons. We're more alike than you might think.

In this moment, I'm thankful for a warmer day. Time to grill some bbq chicken.

DeanC · Guru

Thanks for sharing that. Lately, since my wife has been the administrator of a Unity Church, I've been privy to a lot of the spiritual materials and Authors of some of the best "New Age" stuff. Pretty cool. Being in AA/NA as long as I have, I'm big on gratitude for everything everyday. Gratitude = Happiness and you can't have one without the other. Being grateful brings more of what you're grateful for. The high end is to be grateful now, for what it is that you wish for, as if you've already received it. Amazing stuff!

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