You know I heard this from an old timer in the other fellowship and he was getting ready to do his fourth step he said. He was talking to his sponsor about his family being dysfunctional and his sponsor said you know. It is only dysfunctional because you are a part of the dysfunctional family, it wouldn't be if you weren't there. I was like wow we have all contributed to the dysfunctional family if you think about long and deep. If I wasn't out there being self-centered and worrying about me and only me. My parents would have had time for themselves and others instead I helped to contribute to it. I caused a lot of my own insanity and it within my family also. I have learned in this program that I have to take responsibility for what I have done in my own life. For the parts that I had caused and realize it and accept at that point and to go on. Look and see what parts you have starred in. I wouldn't leave it or abandon it I would work on me and everything else will fall into place slowly but surely. As I get better my relationships in my family slowly start to come together. I have six months right now and I have gained a lot of relationships back just by not picking up and using for today. I do the work I need to do and stay focused on recovery and everything else tends to fall into place.

Thanks for letting me share,

Shannon

I think its safe to say we've all had similiar struggles in that for most of us the history of our addiction involves our family in both nuture and nature.  For me it starts to be the chicken egg argument.  Which came first kinda thing.  Yes I contributed to the insanity.  But when I was 4 or 5 I did not contribute in any where near the way I did when I was 18. 

In our groups where families are actively using a substance, all drug users or all drinkers, those folks have to either stay away from their families or when they spend time with their families, a sober sponsor goes with them to family gatherings.  The family users are considered a high risk environment and users in recovery have to take it seriously to avoid relapse.

I do not see how it in principle is any different for co-dependents, food addicts, etc.   Yes we want our families to be healing, accepting, safe places and people.  It hurts and grieves us that our families are not.  But reality is what reality is.   If your family is a high risk environment you have to treat your recovery with respect and act accordingly regardless of what it is you are recovering from.  

You also should be fully aware that despite how much you love your family and hope your recovery will rub off on them and move them to recovery if only in the sense that you are modeling health and not confronting anyone, it doesn't work that way.    How many of us grieve over family members still in their addiction despite our recovery and our loving them? 

I'm sorry Manon but your post is out of line.  Yes you have every right to be angry or upset and tell folks how you feel.  That is not what you posted.  You attacked.  And that is not okay.   There is quite a difference between, "When I read what you posted I felt..." and your attack.   One is not only okay, its healthy.  The other gets us no where and is uncalled for.

true....

Running away and avoiding is not okay either.  Non-participation fixes nothing and you and all of us have no opportunity to grow.

I should be able to express myself....

I didn't tell you to not express yourself.  In fact I told you to have at it and do so to your full extent.  There is a difference between "When I read, I felt...."  and attacking with "You..." statements.

Just like in any group, "I" statements are MOST welcome.  "You...." statements however are not.  Making "You" statements are part of our disease.

If I had been raped as an infant and read something that implied somehow I was responsible I would of course be upset.  That does not mean its okay to attack another person.  Again I'm sorry, I feel your reply to true... is an attack.  

Do you for a second really think true.... is blaming you for being sexually assaulted?  I mean REALLY? 

You have an opportunity to flush out some feelings here and do so in a way that is helpful for everyone.  Attacking does nothing other than create defensiveness and further hurt.

Its your call but you might want to re-read your post and consider a different approach.

"glad you can take my inventory..."

Sarcasm is hostility in disguise.  If you have something you want to say to me I prefer you just do it instead of hiding it like that.  I didn't take your inventory.

-- Edited by imikens at 16:02, 2008-11-17

Manon a lot of terrible things happened to some of us and theres no way I would minimize what pain you have. Somehow we have to come to terms with this stuff we really gotta work hard at it though it never goes away personally I had to not let it stand in the way of my recovery any longer.


Each persons pain is just that, there pain there hurt and discomfort, some of it is really deep hurtful stuff and we can't change whats happened we can only change what we do with that stuff today.

People are no always going to tell us what we want to hear and thats why having a close relationship with a higher power is so so important.

For me my higher power helped me to see things I didn't want to see, he helped me come to grips wiuth these things and find some sort of acceptance with these matters and even forgiveness. I was just thinking today where I was 10-20 years ago with one particular issue I had how I wanted and wished even prayed for this persons death I hated him so badly and how today I love that man , my feelings have done 180 degrees and that is because I came to accept the situation and let it go, I actually took this thing held it up to God and blew it out of my life and it was gone.


Powerful things can happen for us Rayne if we let them go we have to be willing to move on though, move  past what holds us down mentally emotional and spiritually.

I hope that helps somehow I want to see you feel good inside you have worked long and hard just keep trudging girl, we do Love you here.

-- Edited by BigV at 21:04, 2008-11-17

This has been interesting, Im sure I could challenge anyone in the F**ked up family department. My father lives 8 houses away. Hes well into his 70s , Hes blind and lives alone. Though he has women come take care of him daily. ( for a HUGE under the table fee )

   I havent seen nor spoken to him in 18 months . He has nothing positive to offer so thats that.
  Everytime I think recovery is going pretty well, a post comes along to let me know how far I have to go.

yea, Ive heard it said that anything I ever let go of had claw marks all over it. LOL

Hmmmm...

ya know vinnie I am grateful for one thing you are heading things atm not me love ya bro God I would really be falling apart toooooooo much on my plate right now on the positive side of things I am only 10 pounds from where the docs want me!!!!!!

-- Edited by Manon at 03:00, 2008-11-18

"God if I started to tell you how overwhelmed I am I am afraid I would write for days....."

Please feel free to get started.....

I guess we all at some point have to ask ourselves and answer for ourselves this simple question.  "So, how's that working for me...?"

If or maybe when then answer is, "Not so well."  We can at least consider its time to change something.

Hopefully enough about addiction has been revealed in terms of the behavior that it is clear stuffing things, bottling up things, isolation, can be agreed upon by all of us as addictive behavior in both what drives us to be addicts and fuels the on-going addictive mind set and keeps us as addicts.

Sometimes things that seem so obvious to others who "see" us we are totally oblvious to. 
_______________________

I am in solitude by choice
I am good at bottling
how overwhelmed I am
________________________


I am concerned for you.   Each of those things are check list items on the "I'm heading for relapse I need to address something before I..." fire escape warning hand out from my recovery program.  Red flags to catch us before we act out if you will.  I have no idea of course where you are and we are just reading posts on a forum after-all.  But I am honestly concerned for you.

It's not my place to come down hard on Rayne or anyone for that matter been there done that and I learned a lesson from it, we've already had thoughs moments together here myself and Manon.

 It is my place to share my experience strength and hope with everyone here.

Do I sponsor others, yes by simply sharing and giving back what I have learned from the program.


Shannon I ran once from this board too and I listened to what everyone had to share with me about how I was dealing with that and what I saw in myself is when things dont go the way I want them to or how I think they should I RUN, I BREAK UP, I YELL and throw tantrums or I ISOLATE thats my M.O in life i can no longer run though that is often my first reaction.

One thing I have learned in the last 2 years being here with other addicts with all of our charecter flaws and insanity is the one thing we should be able to count on from a few of us is that we love you no matter what, we don't have to tolerate abuse or verbal assaults when I told Manon to grab a hold of spiritual principles I think she knew exactly what I was asking rather then me scolding her for some of her posts I suggested usings the spiritual tool as I ask you to do the same.

We have to stop running and learn to deal with what life throws at us, people places things situations and yes we do need to confront each other we're supposed to be helping one another here but we always have to keep in mind doing that in a loving way and the best way I know is gently but firm and from the book with our own personal experiences too.

I would like to share a part of chapter 3 here, this is where most of us came to find NA this is where most of us were at walking through the doors for the first time at least for this addict if fits perfectly.

We reached a point in our lives where we felt like a lost cause. Our worth to our jobs, families and friends was little or none. Many of us were unemployed and unemployable. Any form of success was frightening and unfamiliar. We didn't know what to do. As the self-loathing grew, we needed to use more and more to mask our feelings. We were sick and tired of pain and trouble. We were frightened and ran from the fear. No matter how far we ran, we always carried the fear with us. We were hopeless, useless and lost. Failure had become our way of life and self-esteem was nonexistent. Perhaps the most painful of all was the desperation of loneliness. Isolation and the denial of our addiction kept us moving along this downhill path. Any hope of getting better disappeared. Helplessness, emptiness and fear became our way of life. We were complete failures. Personality change was what we really needed. Change from self-destructive patterns of life became necessary. When we lied, cheated or stole, we degraded ourselves in our own eyes. We had had enough of self-destruction. We experienced how powerless we really are. When nothing relieved our paranoia and fear, we hit bottom and became ready to ask for help.

We were searching for an answer when we reached out and found Narcotics Anonymous. We came to our first N.A. meeting in defeat and didn't know what to expect. After sitting in a meeting, or several meetings, we began to feel that people cared and were willing to help. Although our minds told us we would never make it, the people in the Fellowship gave us hope by insisting we could recover. We found that no matter what our past thoughts or actions were, others had felt and done the same. Surrounded by fellow addicts, we realized that we were not alone. Recovery is what happens in our meetings; each of our lives is at stake. We found that by putting recovery first, the Program works.


We're not alone anymore no matter how difficult we get to each other we're all in this thing together so let's try to be a support group even to the most difficult cases, hell you all don't want to even see me go bursurk I am an absolute nutcase lunatic LOL but I try not to let my disease go that far I don't want to get so far out that the only thing left to grab is some dope and booze I try to stay on this side of that line.

I'd like to see everyone stick around and not give up or run but we all have our own free will, just make sure thats what your higher powers will is also, so come an ask me first before leaving LOLOL JOKE JOKE

-- Edited by BigV at 18:42, 2008-11-18

-- Edited by BigV at 18:43, 2008-11-18

I am in solitude by choice
I am good at bottling
how overwhelmed I am


Ok, so we'll just forget about those things then.  So if your last post is saying what, you want to vent but you don't want anyone to take it seriously?

Here's what it seems like to me when I read your posts.  And again knowing full well we are talking about posts on a forum and in no way is this anything but distantly speculative.

When something gets close to you on the inside where its a bit too uncomfortable you divert it, as in avoid the discomfort, by either 1) bringing up how seriously you were harmed as a child and being hurt by imagining that folks don't/didn't take that pain-harm as seriously as you do OR 2) you dismiss it with something like this last post.

I can easily from now on when I read your posts just say to myself don't take your venting seriously.  Is that what you want?

imikens wrote:

---

I am in solitude by choice
I am good at bottling
how overwhelmed I am


Ok, so we'll just forget about those things then.  So if your last post is saying what, you want to vent but you don't want anyone to take it seriously?

---

Jim, are you seriously trying to bring logic into this discussion

 

-- Edited by DeanC at 17:23, 2008-11-19

DeanC wrote:

---

 

imikens wrote:

---

I am in solitude by choice
I am good at bottling
how overwhelmed I am


Ok, so we'll just forget about those things then.  So if your last post is saying what, you want to vent but you don't want anyone to take it seriously?

---

Jim, are you seriously trying to bring logic into this discussion

 

-- Edited by DeanC at 17:23, 2008-11-19

 

---

Logic can be detrimental to our getting and staying clean that along with our own thinking got us where we were, it's time to grab ahold of something different like the NA program HELLO!!!