raman, friend, addict, brother I appreciate your honest shares . I have a ton of respect for you and the way you live this program.
  Ive read your posts looking for experience strength and hope and you never disappoint me.

  That said , with all due respect and with a willingness to be completely honest with an addict i have come to care about, I have to tell you. The more you share about your relationship . The more destructive it seems to be. It seems anything but healthy. I swear raman I'm not judging you. But are you sure this girl is someone you need to be involved with ?

Raman,
I concur with Anthony. This insistence, of hers, for you to be tested is indicative of her jealousy thing raising it's ugly head again. Unprovoked jealousy is a serious mental issue that can drive the afflicted to do the unthinkable. If a person can imagine those things, what else can they imagine and how might the law/courts
treat these imaginations? Usually they side with the female and many a man has been falsely imprisoned from these acqusations.   Raman, please go find someone else to play with.




-- Edited by DeanC at 06:57, 2008-11-12

In terms of the public health aspect of it IF she is positive and the test was done at a credible place, they will have to provide information to possible infected partners.  Positive results are not hidden from potential victims of the infection.  So you do not need to stay in the dark.  It is serious business and folks have been charged with murder/manslaughter for failing to disclose positives.  So in terms of you knowing if you were exposed through her, you can find out.  There is no reason to let your imagination rule the day.

In terms of your relationship, unhealthy people attract and look for unhealthy people.  When we feel we are "one down" our selves, we look for others who are "one down" as well.  We do not understand relationships that are on a equal plane as in 0 to 0.  We want them to be +1 and us to be -1.  One up, one down.  Totally unhealthy.  The other common one is both folks -1 and -1. 

Sounds like it time to run away.....

Jim

-- Edited by imikens at 09:06, 2008-11-12

Or it may all be a simple fear on her side if you are positive by any chance since you were an active addict once, and then, she might have simply got offended that you wanted her to do so too - a case of unfair expectations and inequality as you mentioned?

I don't think a person who is HIV positive and who doesn't want the other to know of it would even talk about the issue itself, leave alone ask the other to take a test, this way threaten her own secret... Just lending another angle to it all... thought it's not fair to just think along only one dimension of the issue...

Thanks all,, what a wonderful Fellowship. I
if nothing else ,I know I will grow in your love and understanding. 
Yes, I have been straight with her this morning too. 
Now she says she will take another test. And i know the place where she took her last test. So I will have to wait another few days and believe her.
And by God I hope she is negative. She certainly has played my mind out,,,im at wits end. I completely surrender her,, i completely let her go. as of now I offer her to the God of my understanding , to do with her as God pleases.
I am powerless over her. 
Ther is one thing however,,in order to be very honest about this whole thing Im sending each of you a personal mail now. Id really apreciate any mails you may send me ,,, thanks,, hugs to yall.

-- Edited by Raman at 16:38, 2008-11-12

and yes she is suffering from a strange disease caled mctd.
Mixed Connective Tissue Disease.
Her immune system has turned against her with resultant damage to liver and kidneys.
And yes,,she has been a tripper too,,Grass,Booze,,LSD.
Shes down to a very occassional wine glass.Smokes quite a bit.
A very incisive mind.
And actually come to think of it my relations with women have always been strained,,
(except both my grandmas who actually adored me)
Ive never really been comfortable with Ma around,,she was very strict with me when i was young and a shy boy with buck tooth and sleep disorder.
Then the few girlfriends I had were rejected before they could reject me,,, and before i got into any relationship pain.
My marriage was a tension thing from the very first day when I found she had concealed some very important info. about her health,, that she was epileptic and couldnt do housework.
That was typical Indian arranged marriage. the lack of freedom of choice was what drove me nuts in that marriage.
It ended in divorce after 5 years of cohabitation and four years of seperation.
Boy have i really been tested ,,,
I remember once having shared in a meeting
"yes i know that I am powerless over my addiction,,,but its my wife thats unmanageable"
that had the whole room in splits,,,,,

-- Edited by Raman at 17:19, 2008-11-12

Youre very right Anthony,,, oh God am i agonozing at this very moment !!!
Im praying she will show me results of her previous tests,,
she says she is negative.

and Im praying for more Serenity than ive ever felt before,,
so that if we have to part as lovers,,then at least we stay friends.
If of course thats Gods Will,,, and Practical,,, therefore spiritual.

Let us know how the test result information thing goes.  That is again a serious public health matter and regardless of your significant other's reasons, emotions, your relationship, all the analysis speculation about that we can post about "why" of her actions, the public health HIV matter is not up for grabs in terms of your relationship.  It be serious stuff....

Jim

A romantic figure from Indian history went to meet his beloved.
At that rendezvous she asked him
"why did you leave all you had to come be with me ?"
To which he replies
"I believe that the pain of loving you is better thann the pain of not having loved you"
Yes,,, he/she who loves entirely can never lose entirely (quoted)
I,,an addict,,with an addictive personality,, though in recovery cannot be attached to the illusion that somehow working the 12 Steps will rid me of all relationship problems.
A relationship,,especially with someone outside of NA is basicaly an attempt at living life on lifes terms.
God knows thats why the Program demands( albeit suggestively) that I live the Steps.
They are my solution,,my only defense against this cunning enemy of lfe and destructive power called addiction.
I dont know what an addict like me will be without the Steps and you wonderful Fellows.
God Bless yall,,,

Raman wrote:

---

My God,,I missed an important staff/student meeting because I was obssssing on her last Monday.
I was so involved in the obssession that I forgot the responsiblity to my class who had trustingly elected me student representative.
And now im doing damage control.
I wish i had done proper,Programmed time management.
Now Ill have to eat humble pie and wait for the next one in March 2009.

---

Obsession and love are not the same and in my opinion they are incompatible.  Often the obsession is mistaken for love and involves ideals that are not truley representitive of the individual (pedestal perception).  We begin to realize that our perceptions are not based in reality when the actions of our intended differ from the virtues that we have bestowed upon them.  We want so badly for our signicant others to be perfect that we imagine that they are.  This puts considerable preasure upon them as they know the truth (about themselves) and that they can never live up to our lofty ideals.  In the end we realize (or not) that we were in love with an ideal not an individual and come to the conclusion that it could have been anyone or anyBody.  If we are obsessing, then we are not truley getting to know that person.  Our vision gets clouded and we get confused when their actions don't match our perceptions.  My first and greatest sponsor pointed me in the right direction, in regards to my x-wife, when he said  "Don't watch their lips, watch their feet".  Meaning forget about what they say and watch what they actually do.  That will give you a true indication of what they are about and where they are going.

Relationship can be just as addictive as any drug.  Let's face it, romance and sex release internal, and very powerful drugs in our body.  We can also be addicted to these internal drugs (adrenaline, dopemine, endorphines...) and the combination of the two in a  very personal and very self centered manner that has little or nothing to do with the love and care for another human being.  We just link the feelings that we are having to that person and it becomes pathological.   Obsessing over a relationship is indicative of the above and suggests a need or dependence.  How can we truley know that we love someone if that relationship is based on a need or dependence?  Loving someone is respecting them as an individual.  Recognizing their uniqueness, independence, freedom, and separateness from ourselves.  With that said we should be comfortable with their wish to leave at any time because we have appreciated them one day at a time (being in the moment), not obsessing about the future with them.   The phrase  "If you love someone then set them free"  is incorrect in nature as we should never have made them "unfree"  in the first place.

See how this wonderful  definition of addiction, that John Bradshaw gave us, fits in with relationships.   "an addiction is a pathological relationship  (love to/have to)  to a mood altering  substance or event (or person), that has life damaging consequences."  

Raman,  if  the obsessing in this relationship is preventing you from meeting your school and career obligations and is putting your life (and your future) in jeapordy, then it is unhealthy in nature.  It's very hard to make an unhealthy relationship into a healthy one as most of the work must be done on ones self.  Imagine trying to repair a car while you are driving it.    Relationships are optional.  God does not garranty those for us.  They are not a primary need.  We can get all the love we need from family and friends (and ourselves which is most important).  Work and taking care of Ourself, however, Are Our primary needs and responsibilities.  If relationships are well,  recreational in nature, and we haven't fulfilled our obligations to ourselves, then we have no business  engaging in them just as we shouldn't go play golf or go hiking when we should be working or doing homework for college.  It's that simple.   Don't get me wrong,  marriage and family are an obligation that we take on at an appropriate time and place, but we certainly wouldn't quit our career to go and persue them either.  So self preservation (which includes Working!)  comes before family, friends, and relationships because without self, there is nothing that we can give or share with anyone anyway.  Similar to our clean time and sobriety,  Anything that we put in front of them, we will lose anyway when we relapse.  It's all about priorities and boundaries.

Breathe
Eat
Sleep
Work
Meetings
Personal responsibilities
Family
Friends
Playtime  <--girlfriend

/end of lecture 

 

-- Edited by DeanC at 05:13, 2008-11-14

I love my wife dearly.  We have been married for 32 years.  We are soul mates.  IF I missed a meeting because I was thinking about or obsessing about her, she would do two things.

1.  Ask me what was wrong.  That I need to talk to someone as while she appreciated the intensity of my thinking about her, she would not want that kind of obsessing to continue.

2.  She would slap me up the side of the head and tell me to snap out of it.

Just like the substances we use in our addiction, that we can not use them, be around them, etc., if we want to get sober, I will suggest that you need to get away from this person.  It is unhealthy and being around her is furthering your insanity.

And just like we love our "precious" and feel, are 200% convinced we will die without it, Vicodin, alchohol, etc. , all of that is a lie.  We actually do live without it and live better.  Your feelings about how you will feel, live, survive, be yourself without her, are sick.  Stop the insanity.

I'm also going to suggest that the drama that is in your postings is part of the area YOU control.  The drama is a symptom of a diseased process.  I'm sorry but there it is.  When addicts are getting a bunch of drama going on, it is a symptom of the addiction NOT reality.  All of that is in YOUR control. 

You've had a bunch of advice here.  All of it the same.  Yet you continue in the same pattern, same behaviors.  What do you think will be the result of your choices?  Do something different or don't.  Its your choice.  But stop acting like its up to her.  Stopping or continuing all of the drama is up to you.

Jim

-- Edited by imikens at 08:35, 2008-11-14

Raman wrote:

---

Ive sent personal mails to Dean, Tahir,Vin and Anthony.
Id love to send the same to Jim and Golden but I dont have their mail addresses.

---

I am sorry Raman I did get it but have been meditating on your letter this touches a personal place and expewrience for me with great confusion, so I dont want to share what I think rather share a message to you from a higher power, so far it hasn't gotten back to me

 

Any news on the test result front?

and yes Jim,,
Im hoping for the best,, and Im praying for Gods compassion and mercy !!!

i read what you wrote to raman...about the obsessing...dont watch their lips watch their feet. boy you dropped it off i needed to here that! i have just 90 something days this time around...not new to the program just new to really getting honest and willing to go to any lenghth to stay sober this go around. i already have a crush on a guy in the program he has more time than me and thank god knows better to go forward with anything right now...its a good thing cause knowing me i want what i want and i want it yesterday!!!sex, the need to be accepted,loved...all that when taken out of its balanced context i know causes major problems(yeah i am on step 4)its hard to stomp out self!i liked all that you said...your so right about the dopamine thing its been known to cause relapses...thank god for sponsers and people like you who share their experience,strenghth,and hope!!  to dean c

-- Edited by amyj at 04:18, 2008-11-21

-- Edited by amyj at 04:18, 2008-11-21

Yes Amy youre right.
Let go or get dragged,,,,yes.
And yes,, love is blind and we need to be each others ears and eyes.
Its like tyre standing so close i cant see them and thyre talking so loud i cant hear them.
It truly takes a third party to assess these situations.
And know what /\???
tHE MOST IMPORTANAT DISCOVERY IS TO ACCEPT THAT SOMETIEMS THE ONLY WAY IS TO LIVE AND LEARN .
Basically its about me,my attitudes and reactions.
It is I who has to accept the exact nature of MY wrong.
We need mutual agreement to acknowledge that something is a defect or that it isnt working.
Its got to be a mutual effort,,understanding things from a WE (and not a "me")viewpoint .
God knows then what is possible.

thanks Vin,,. O my God have i changed in recovery. 
This here same addict used to dream about being on Old Mac Donalds farm,, 
with here a chick,there a chick,everywhere a chick,chick !!! 
Who wanted anything like relationships with those chicks ??? 
They were simply to be enjoyed and let go of,,, 
and then life changes and I got serious about my recovery,,
in fact i think many a time have i taken myself too damn seriously !!
thereby missing out on all the fun and true love a man-woman relationship can offer me,,there for the asking.
Yes I accept that a loving relationship is just that,love for loves sake and if it dont work out walk out with mutual agreement !!!

-- Edited by Raman at 20:45, 2008-11-23

yes you are soooooo right! i made a decision to leave that alone...i have the rest of my life for all that....however if i dont work on self...i may not have a life period!!!!!thank you for your input...i needed that

Wel,Wellwell,,and oh fukkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk yes,
My Faith in God has been renewed.
MY SWEETHEART CALLED ME OVER TO HER PLACE THIS EVENING.
tHEN AFTER SOEM INITIAL SMALL TALK SHE PULLS OUT AN ENVELOPE AND GIVES IT TO ME AND SAYS,,
"HERE READ IT"
I OPEN THAT ENVELOPE,,HEART IN MY MOUTH.
AND THERE LO AND BEHOLD,,,THE REPOST SAYS
HEP.C NEGATIVE
CHLEYMEDIA NEGATIVE
STDS NEGATIVE (AND YES,,)
HIV NEGATIVE....
THANK YOU GOD AND I THANK ALL YOU WONDERFUL NAs WHO TOOK AN ACTIVE INTEREST IN ME AND MINE.
I SINCIERLY THANK YALL FOR BEING THERE,,,,,GOD BLESS YALL/GOD KEEP YOU BLESSED IN YOUR OWN RECOVERIES.

So glad to hear that all is well with your loved one's health condition as is evident from the test results Raman, Hugs and best wishes bro...

Thanks Powerless,,, that was a fab insightful share.
Yes thats what obssession are eh ?
Yes,,ive always been one to obssess on different objects and events .
When the drugs went,, after i decided id stay clean at any cost, i began obssessing on events and objects cause they gave me focus in life.
yes,, though Im obssessed to this day with objects,evenst and people,,Iv learnt to let go of that which causes mischief when pursued.
Like take my studies for example,,
ive been very fixed on finishing my current assignment and starting a new one.
BUT i also take care to live and love at the same time.

After a different type of Christmas and New Years with her,,its a sad day as I leave her and goto India for a holiday. 
Hope shes still there when I am back after 2 weeks.
If not,,that reality has to be accepted too.

-- Edited by Raman at 10:09, 2009-01-11

relationships are not necessary but good for recovery. Not only the romantic ones,but in general.
WhenI think of my studies,I can never hope to finish my masters if i dont have support.
Support of my immediate family of mom and dauhter,,the many friends and Fellows in and outside of NA, then theres the ones at college like tutors,scholars and felllow students.
I have to be equeal in these contexts simply for the sake of being honest.
Honesy has been and will ever be the cornerstone of my recovery.
Denial is the disease whereas honesty is recovery. When Im honest with myself and others,especially about feelings and my state of mind I have found wonderful things happen.
For instance I am no longer bothered about outcomes. IO have come to believe that fixation on putcomes will bring in manipulation,cheating and other forms of dishonesty.
This Program has taught me the value of honest and untiring effort,wherin the outcome will automatically take care of itself if i do my best.
Doing my best has involved being in class, asking questions and answering questions. thereafter it also meant honestly agreeing about things i was not doing well and the making an honest effort to correct it.
therefore now Im in an attitude that shows me how to live and enjoy life without the use of drugs.
Thank God for Narcotics Anonymous !

I just expressed something I had to.
I say to this guy,who has soldme musical instruments=
"look if your boss wants to be seeing people doing things right then he has to do so to.
How come he hasnt given me a reciept yet ?
On one hand he insists on immediate payment, but promptly forgets to send the bill".

In another instance I had confronted the boss himself when Id mailed him saying
"look, as I see it you have no cause for complaint. If people that buy on full credit pay promptly they do so because there is a forma agrrement and the amount is very small in each instalment. When you compare that with the large lump sum you got from me, you have no cause to complain"
I suspect the chap has an inbuilt bias,,,,so that shows up in his dealings and when spotted is seen by the customer as an inequealiity.
Im so greatful for being aware of these inequealities. I can fisrt of all confront them that treat me that way,, and next make sure Im myself not treating people ike that !!!!
What ways this Program works ??? Never ceases to amaze me at all.

So whats the correct thing to do now ?

Ha,ha, !! Thanks Dean.
Breath of fresh air that.
Yes I do agree with that.

In fact Ive decidd that juts foir today I will not bother with bother of having to bother about being in a relationship based on weakness.
So yeah,, I suppose Im beggining to see the Light; that being powerless over is different from acting out a weakness.

Two things strike me as corrcet things for me to do=
like you say,fact the fact that its all right to be alone, and not in a romantic relationship.
The next one is to prioritize things,,,more that anything now I want to do a good job of the Masters,,that priority no.1 for me now.

If I ever learn to relate rightly,, then I at least get to keep the good memories,,,
or maybe im being presemptous and not lett8ng go and letting God guide me,,real guideance thru my dear soul friends in nA like you Dean !

Obssessing with the other is the problem.
Then these other feelings step into the picture=
self-pity, confusion,lust etc. hell,,then thers the resentment crying to be addressed.
My situation is again getting unmanageable=
I went on holiday to India.
Just before that there had een an unpleasent incident agin,,,,I had even said
"youll never se me again"
Then later in the evening,i send an sms,,though all the wihole i was trying to decide never to contact her again.
Then she responded and we were on sms again and next morning I called from the airport.
Later on as i ws in India we kept in contact again,,,chatting on the phone.
Then as I had to be studious and work hard on my assignment I began to express feelings about it being difficult to study.
Next she stops answering my calls. Never did again.
Till last nite . Afterr two weks im back in England.
I tried calling but no answer.
Then i tried from my new sim card and she answers.
I tell her
"ah,,Ive caught you at last".
We chat a bit and then i call off saying=
"it was nice chatting you"
To which she sez=
"im not so sure",,,,,,,,,, and we laugh it off.
Anyways tjis morning a weird thing happens=
my credit runs out. I try smsingbut dosent work.
Strangely I get a message that says
"thanks sean,,will meet ytou there"
Then my sms works after the card company credits me and i sms asking who is sean ?
she says a friend whose b'day lunch she is going to.
I know that sean is the son of her friends,,and that shed missed his bday party.
And so,,instead of jumping to the conclusion that shes been unfaithful while ive been honest,,im leting things be as they are.
I dont want to lose my mind with false claims and accusations,,ive seen what that did to her so ive learnt from her to that end.
So once again, even after having decided never to trouble her again
Im in the same confusion.

Thanks as always Dean.
Yes as I think about what youve shared, I am aware of the following=
If either or both of us chose to go our seperate ways,,then Id be ok because the issue has been resolved then.
What I am trying to do in effect is to reduce or completely eliminate the uncertainity and the fear that brings.

" if you love someone then love them and set them free,
if they come back,, then it was meant to be"

Dean Ive also been attributing all the inspiration ( and prespirations) that Ive experienced these past 18 months,especially the England trip,,to her. I believe that if she hadnt been there Id never have done this amazing stuff,,and now to ditch her will be a very cruel and selfish thing to do.

Thats the basic thing Im trying to work on by way of accepting= that she may never be there to share in the success and joy that will be an obvious outcome of finishing my masters. Id gladly share the success and rewards ,, she deserves to share in it.

Thats why each time i begin to think
"its time i began living on my own"
I feel free and all,but then I begin thinking
"wont it be better if she was here with me now ?"

So now Im thinking I need to have a real heart to heart with her. I also know Im placing an unnecessary burden on her in light of a recently discovered medical condition.

This is a treatable condition but needs at least 6 months of treatment. So in that time theres always the risk of passing on the infection.Once again, the contradiction is that all the many doctors and nurses I talked to are of the opinion that transmission is completely eliminated by precautions and checks.

However,,the world will always be afraid of sick people,in the fear that they may get sick too,
by associating with the sick person,especiallyon an intimate level.

With that in view, Id certainly want to let J be free of my,,premanently if she wants.
I dont want to be the one to initiate that action because I believe that now that she knows all there is to know,,she dosent have to be cryptic anymore.

All she has to do is say
"look baby,it was good in parts while it lasted. But now Ive got to let you go. I cannot handle m fears about you anymore."

I wish shed be forthcoming enough to say that and be done. I know that Id be mad for sometime, then sad for some more but then life will go on,,with me getting used to living without her by my side,,qa one small desire I had in life.
As much as i feel shy ,,I know that as winter turns to spring,the wounded heart must heal,,,cause thats the ways of time,,and no one and nothing stays un-changed !!!

Oh to be blessed to sing the song
"youd be so nice to come home to" would be a great reality for me,,the one thing thats eluded me in my recovery.
Ive prayed,ive lusted,ive Meditated andIve manipulated; but never did I find true love,,even after consiously seeking it.
So Ive invested my love in doing service in the Fellowship and to my daughter and mother.
Now Im investing time and money,,because of my love and passion for events and tyhe desire to better things and bring about improvements.
Livet o love and love to live is a reality for me,,especially joyous is exchange of pleasentries and acts of kindness with total strangers...
Like the other day i exchanged some banter with a bunch of kids in a cold,cold bus station;;what joy and warmth I felt after that.

Maybe thats the true expressions of love,,,to love all and serve all.

Yes indeed,,as I reflect on it seems like greed is at play here. Greed for more than is necessary !!!! 
I dont own that greed,.
What i do know however is that,an embedded,old time ,basic flaw of mine has been the use of greed !
Greed is the expectation of a particular result as consequence of an action I carry out.
Which actually contravenes the idae of love in NA=
"to give of myself without expecting anything in retiurn".
Hopefully I will achieve a greater degree of that ideal,,and find that this is a new way to live.;
free to be me and be in the here and now !!!!!!!!!!

"Look to this day,for it is life, the very life of life.
In its brief course lie all the reaities and verities of action.
Theres the bliss of growth,the splendour of action and the glory of power.
For yesterday is but a dream and tommorow is only a vision,
but today well lived makes every yesterday  a dream of happiness
and every tommorow a vision of hope.
LOOK WELL THEREFORE TO THIS DAY !!!"

(a Sanskrit proverb,  quoted on the inside cover of the Hazelden Daily Book)



-- Edited by Raman at 15:07, 2009-02-01

"When an addict, any addict reaches out for help, I want the hand of NA to always be there,,and for that I am responsible". 
I am responsible for ending lonliness,,but not in an addictive way. I am not "addictied " to company,, I am not using people to fix feelings. Its the real relationships I have developed in NA thats made life meaningful,as long as they dont get addictive. 

When my relationships,(not only the intimate ones) become obssessive and compulsive,the next thing will be the selfishness. Now thats a sign of my dis-ease in progress. Next in this context I will quote an authority on relationships.I am not naming the source cause that may imply endorsement of outside sources. If I am refering to an outside source as an individual in NA ,there is no problem .However,it may be taken out of context so I will keep that authority anonymous. So here it is= 

1."Remember that a relationship is a pooling of resources.This means that with each relationship you are not only giving but also becoming more" 
2. "Dont feel as if you are required to spend your every waking hour with those you love.Move aside from time to time and allow them a seperate space too" 
3. "Dont think of forever. think of now and forever will take care of itself" 

(now back to my own thinking,,ha,ha !!!) When I turn over ME,, I get WE. And strangely enough, all of our 12 Steps begin with WE,. And finally in the 12th,,"WE" bestows pon me a spiritual experience,and i share this. We tried to carry this message to addicts and practice these Principles in all our affairs. And thereby end lonliness ,,but there is a but. The key is the relationships built around the activity of carrying the message to the addict that still suffers .The relkationship is with a bunch, team,group etc. of recovering addicts who like me care for the desperate,dying addict and want to make a differance. This points to quality and not quantity Which means I need to build up that. 

Heard this one ? "Clean time does not necessarily imply recovery",. At that point of suffering, clean time will imply the need to recover from the disease. Recovery at this point means cleaning up on the ways the disease of addiction  manifests even without the use of drugs. A clue is given about having better relationships in that one word "TRIED." Placing unrealtstic expectations on myself or others is a negative antecedent in a relationship. I must allow others their own shortcomings and let them be themselves,in the sense of what they do and how they behave.I dont have to judge them or calibrate them. 

All we can do is try. No amount of intervention by us can convince an addict to change. That desire , the Basic Text says has to come from within. It has to be an intrinsic motivation,which motivation may well be the effect of intense pain and punishment of using drugs and then withdrawls. In my case it was more than anything else the using of drugs against my will and the terrible withdrawls i had to go through.. Seems like unless I am sick and tired of being sick and tired I may not want ro listen. 

Thats been the Truth for me. 

One major cause of lonliness that I,my sponsor,sponsees and like minded friends have agreed upon is SELFISHNESS> When I am willing to let go of selfishness,,there has been a permanent end to my lonliness !! It works without fail each time I try. God Bless you  more than ever in your recovery . May the experience of hundreds of thousands of recovering addicts guide you,, if indeed that be your own choice !



-- Edited by Raman at 18:52, 2009-02-07

Hello Dean,,,thanks bro.
Got some good news to give you=
grades are up,,
I got
57.4 in Sectot Industry Analysis
59.7 in Marketing.
heartbreak too,,because Im so near yet so far from the first class score of 60.

Gods sake,,but anyways,,Im greatful for the support from you Dean.
Your ideas are really worth the try,I was sharing one of em( the once only date) with an NA sponsee here.
And we had a close encounter of the ooze kind just before this.
Wed just finished a fab Indian meal at a restaraunt and chatted happily about Steps,studies etc.
Then withoiut warning,,the waiter plumps two glasses under our noses and says
"some brandy,complimentary".
God knows that thning had a whiff,,but thank God the Powerless over alcohol idea quickly came over us.
In fact,,it appeared that the waiter seemed embarassed that we had refused.Ha,ha,ha !!
Close shave that.

And yes,,the Valentines buzz is real strong here,,I may well be able to experiment with that fab idea of yours.
God Bless you more than ever,,and keep you Blessed forever !
Hugs.
Raman

Im wondering how to accept the following=
I come early to class and wait for others to get in.
I wish each one as they come in.
Most of them wish me back and we discuss grades we got.
Howver one or two have given me the cold shoulder,gruff look etc.
So why do i spend time thinking of em,,rather than the ones who I have a cordial relation with ????

Ive seen this happen especially with students from a particular country that has never seen democracy,,nor are they good in the English language which is the language of instruction.
They come from a dictatorship,,and are also known as a country that has inveded terrttories of other countries,including mine.

I believe they are that ones that need to be humble in order to learn,,,but seems like they expect me to be humble,acknowledging of their" superiority",,etc,etc,,etc....

Thanks for letting me think things out,,,,

Today ive been talking to a student who has very good grades.
And yesterday Id talked to another student who has great grades.

The first impulse is to feel less than. Usual habit. However the Steps have affected a change in my life=
I no longer stay with the less than feeling by simply deciding to learn from the winners.
Stick with the winners is true in studies too. Ive been conciously observing some students who are good and have come to understand that there rae certain factors that seem common=
1. They seem very focussed in what they are doing. We may even call that obssession .
However obssessions are destructive whereas they do well with such high levels of concentration and dedication.
2. A cornerstone of academic excellence seems to be the accomodation of balanced arguement. These students score high marks as a result of developing an arguement and then balancing that with a counter. This in fact is the marking criteria according to the Module book.
3. Their learning style seems more oriented to listening than imposition of their own views.
They are primarily good listeners and are willing to entertain opposing points of views. Most importantly they also agree to disagree without being disagreeable.
4. Of the ones on my list that got great grades,,four of the five are women.(is that a significant finding ?)

That said,they are an example to me . I have experienced an upliftment each time I had an open minded conversation with them !!!

Then the feelings of inadequacy and low self esteem pass and are replaced with hope and sense of purpose.

Just for today,I have decided that I will not complain,cringe,procrastinate.

I will be greatful that I passed,no matter what. then I wil also be very greatful for having scored very well in two other subjects that have been marked,with Marketing being a first class.
I will also seek to learn from the feedback from the tutors,,and thereby hope to do better where I havent done so well and and exceed my limitations where I have already done well.

Instead of looking at in-equeality and thinking about how" they are treating me",I will instead
srtive to be the best recovering addict that I can be !!!!

Some captions =====

Though life is gloomy at times,,and things look bleak

-- Edited by Raman at 15:56, 2009-02-11

Darkest fore the dawn they say,,but Im thinking more like what I am greatful for=

Home and hearth, food, friends in NA family support,,college scenes,,,

knowing that in life iI am not to steamroll my way  over opposing points of view !!!

-- Edited by Raman at 15:54, 2009-02-11

When challenged to accept reality, it is my first reaction to reject.

However Ive learnt that wisdom comes after being in a resentment and that feeling becomes too hot to handle.

That is when the sharing by others in recovery leads me back to understanding and accepting reality as it is.

Basic to recovery is that I understand first of all that I will never be like normal people.

First things first; I had a lot of unmanageability in my life even before I used. Thats one reason why I liked the narcotic effect. It released my inner tension in tyhe foist palce and made me feel at peace with the world.

In using more and more drugs I believe I have experiences psychic realmsthat ordinary people cannot even imagine. Thereofre it is not correct for me to expect them to understand me. This is why fear of ordinary folks must be replaced with caring and sharing with them as I would with another drug addict. ( It Works )
This is not in reference to feelings surrounding drug experiences or recovery but those related to living as a human being in a human world.

Living in inequeal relationships can be frustrating to say the least. therefore caution is required and love and understanding mnust be given without expecting anything return.
And when the giving and recieving of help, care and love begins to hurt,it has to stop.

Most of all, living in relationships that are based on mistrust and suspicion could be fatal for a recovering addict,,so God help me that Im not in such a relationship as that.

Was reading Vins share today.
Identified a lot of similar feelings there !

Yes Vin,
lucky for us however,that we have 12 Steps to deal with the madness.
We are HigherPowered eh ?

Im at times wondering
@am i equeal to the task mof finishing my present assignments and then moving onto the dissertation ?@

I need to really get a good look at my timing and get to managing it better.
Im suffering with late drop in of assignments.
Im lucky that the beautiful and desireable lady at the desk was an angel and gave me a good break on both days.She did not insist that I fill up the late forms,,that would have given me minus points.
I really pray for Blessing for her.

Thanks Lee.
Its been a terrible experience,,my only hope is God.
I only hope that God did not bring me here to get HIV from her, if indeed she has it.
This is one instance where I need to believe her.
Shed said shed tested negative many months ago and took another test at my insistence.
And in the meanwhlie,after we started having sex again, I always used condoms.
trhe last time we had sex was that nite of 12 January,,Ive been celibate ever since.
That last lovemaking lasted a long time and I was doubly protected.
I dont know why I am not trying to get sex; the desire seems to have vanished into thin air.
The last time wed had sex on the nite of Jan 12, I was aboyut to visit India.
I came to India, and one of the first things I did after visiting Ma and my daughter was t head for the Ashram where I'd experienced some great Meditations.
Now this time I went with a petition= I was obssessing on J, I was doing that because of my craving for sex, and these things were putting me and my recovery in danger.

Poor Jacqueline,,,lost and lonely without security of the Fellowship,,like we have !!!

What a weird day,,I was totally absorbed with trying to reason out why my cash card is not working,,,leaving me without funds.
A very unequeal relationship,,obssessing with my own problems,,instaed of ringing up and finding out !!!
WHEW !