I just can't bring my self to share this dark hidden sexual crap with another person. I know it is hindering my growth, spritual relationship with Higher Power etc. Why is this so difficult. Would rather crawl under a rock then take chance of rejection..."That's some sick shit dude." All I want is total freedom from the past and current shit I obsess about and act upon. Damn this sucks.
Ok secondly preparation before working the 4th step which is a moral inventory are the second and third steps have you gotten there yet? This is advisable and should be gone over with a sponsorhave you done that?
We face ourselves in steps so that we don't go into an emotional twist without having courage and fiath enough to face our fears, after awhile faith is what we get the courage from to face these undesirable aspects of our lives and how we have lived in the past.
Remember we're not all bad there is much good in each of us , there is much confusion and contradiction in our lives that need sorting through so don't rush into anything .
Give us a little more information on your recovery and where you are in the program, we'll definetly try and help all we can.
Hey "needanswers", welcome, and F.Y.I. that's exactly how I feel and I'm sure all addicts feel when they first come to NA... lol... So, you're no different, you just are going through what each of us have to go through at one point or another in NA, so welcome home, to a place where the way I think, feel and behave, to my surprise, are shared by many others too who have been there and dealt with it all...
Right place, right time, right people!
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Just curious "needanswers" you have a drug problem too, or is it just the stuff you shared above?
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
unless it involves recent (within the statute of limitations) criminal behavior on your part (share it with a priest), it need's to come out and has been shared by others thousands of times before. We had a thread in here a month ago where several members shared about being sexually abused as children. search for it and add your comments. "we are only as sick as our secrets"
I did my fifth step a few weeks ago and leading up to it I kept picturing my sponsor running out of the room screaming "get away from me you sick fuck" There was no reason to drive myself crazy. When I finally looked at him he told me some of his sick stuff. It all ended with "these are things only someone smoking crack would do" I actually found alot of comfort and self acceptance in that
I have 13 years uncontinuous clean time. Just coming back into the program after 4 1/2 years; had 7 when I went back out. I am 2 weeks clean. I know what I need to do, just want to get some things out the way so I can move forward in recovery.
My Higher Power is loving and graceful, I know that the dark crap is a way my disease can keep me down. I want to deal with it sooner vs. later. It isn't a matter of me using because of it. I don't need a reason to use, I have a reason to live.
Yes, I have a sponsor and have dealt with my unmanageability, belief that God can give me sanity and that I have surrendered to Him. I don't want to use, just want to be sane and beyond these few things that weigh on my shoulders. I don't believe that I need to spend a year in anguish in order to unload things.
unless it involves recent (within the statute of limitations) criminal behavior on your part (share it with a priest), it need's to come out and has been shared by others thousands of times before. We had a thread in here a month ago where several members shared about being sexually abused as children. search for it and add your comments. "we are only as sick as our secrets"
Dean
-- Edited by DeanC at 17:59, 2008-11-01
Thank God no! I will put it like this, self-gratification. Some people would say,"That is normal man, hell I do it too." It is just old behavior though and I want release from it.
I don't think it's silly to be concerned about stuff that one feels is hindering their spiritual growth. No offense at all Dean, but just because it's not sodomy or rape the guy is talking about, doesn't mean it's just silly. I realize you're just making a joke, and maybe I'm being too serious here, but I think it's our responsibility to try the best we can to support people in their struggles, not make light of them or poke fun. ::off my soapbox::
Just a word to NeedsAnswers: In my experience, I have no shame in something such as you're suggesting; therefore, I have no experience. But if it's causing you problems, shame, guilt, and the likes, perhaps a 12 step program such as Sex Addicts Anonymous, or an NA sponsor with experience in these matters is what you seek.
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"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." ~Oscar Wilde~
A guy goes over his fourth step with his sponsor. At the end his sponsor says, " Ok, is there anything else you haven't told me? Anything at all?" The guy thinks a minute then puts his hand over his mouth and mumbles something unintelligible. The sponsor says, "What?" The guy does the same thing again. The sponsor says, "Look, just SAY it." So, the guy finally says, "Well.... I had sex with a chicken." His sponsor didn't gasp, didn't judge or reject him, just looked at him a quick minute, then asked, "Did your chicken die?" The guy says, "No." Sponsor says, "Heck, mine DID!!"
WE ARE NOT UNIQUE!!! LOVE YOU GUYS, I'LL KEEP COMING-----
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"With a sweet tongue of kindness, you can drag an elephant by a hair." ~Persian Proverb
needanswers wrote:...just want to get some things out the way so I can move forward in recovery.
I don't believe that I need to spend a year in anguish in order to unload things.
Well said, "needanswers". That's exactly how I felt after my last relapse too, I realized that I'm not able to stay stopped and move on in recovery exactly because of the baggage that I carried from the past. I just wanted to bring it all out out of my system so that I feel free to move on, and that's what I did. I bared it all with such intensity and fortitude that I feel surprised when I look back at those times. I guess I did so back then because I knew that my life and future depended on it
I like what you shared about not needing a year in anguish to unload things. Verily, 'misery' is optional. Just because there are issues to be resolved, crises to be dealt with and pain to be experienced doesn't mean I have to feel miserable about all of it. Misery is just another drug like alcohol or heroine that I try to use today, being the addict that I am Also, guilt and shame are the two allies that my disease has, to get a grip on me, using these 2 drugs to fix my uncomfortable present can also halt my growth and send my recovery in a backward spiral. I have to look into my past, see it for what it all was, and let it go by embracing the present, and owning the 'me' as is revealed through my Fourth and Fifth. Being at peace and at self-acceptance is the only way I could change the things that are disadvantageous to my life and recovery. I cannot do a Sixth and Seventh on issues/aspects that I don't acknowledge, own and accept as "me".
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
Thanks TAHIR. You know where I am coming from then. Hey! I appreciate everything everyone has said. Judeo Christian up bringing has its good points, but sometimes I find that it is also a great source of negative images towards myself. I continue to have a reshaped image of my Higher Power as well as renewing of beliefs about Him as well. I am a fighter and will make it, I need to give myself a break.
I talked to my sponsor last night; he's getting ready to celebrate 20 years. We will deal with my concepts of my Higher Power at a later date, I just need to remember that when I relapse I use more and I feel worse. I have a disease that is as crazy as I am, even crazier. So I just need to be true to myself, honest with myself and be vigilant against the disease within me, hence, this topic.
Just 4 Today I will have a friend for when I hurt. Thanks for being my friends.
Ok enough of generalisations and theories,,this Program for me works on actual facts,,,especially about the nature on wrong doing,,indeed the EXACT nature of wrongdoing.
Funny how when i was new in recovery and had to goto meetings of another Fellowship because NA wasnt there in my town,I had hellava time sharing about one sexualu behaviour i was very ashamed of,,wanking off. Each time i wanked off to re-lease sexual tensions I fell in my own eyes. Some of the most selfpunishing thousghts i had were= "oh !@#$,,,im fated to be a wanker " " i wish i was &^%$#@! a great babe now instead of doing this godawful shit" "i may become demented because of this" "what will they think if they find out" were some of the thoughts that I began to believe about myself. The exact nature of my wrong here (which my sponsor pointed out) is thinking that its ME. Voyuerism,sexual fantasy,,imagining sexual situations where i was in ecstacic sexual intercourse with wife/sister/girlfriend/mother of someone i hated was wrongdoing. Wrong simply cause i wasnt allowing myself to resolve conflict and was therefore harming myself. So next thing I know is addiction asks me to identify myself as a wanker, chick failure man etc. dirty guy etc.,,, thereby once again making me feel like a mad,bad guy rather than a drug addict in need of recovery. Now although those labels will pinpoint certain behaviours,,they will never set me free if I believe that to be the real me. The main problem in my self identity has been to beileve that what i do is what i am. . Yes i did wank,, and do so at times. even now(in emergencies,,,,hehhehheh,,) But thats the general nature of the human being and when i was in the other Fellowship I couldnt share with others and resolve shame cause they were all happily married etc. Then I met some younger members there who had similar problems and felt "bad" about themselves when they wanked off. So we shared and discussed. and the most important thing is that tho Ive not become completely non auto sexual,,I never feel shame about it. And shame is the one most dangerous thing in recovery,,it dosent allow forgiveness. It keeps me in resentment and hate,, a perfect set up for the disease to step in and run my life all over again.. By God,,,choose recovery and all the wonderful gifts living clean and serene have brought me. All the best,,immon;ly sharing my own experience ,strenght and hope.
-- Edited by Raman at 10:29, 2008-11-02
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
dan h wrote:A guy goes over his fourth step with his sponsor. At the end his sponsor says, " Ok, is there anything else you haven't told me? Anything at all?"
The guy thinks a minute then puts his hand over his mouth and mumbles something unintelligible. The sponsor says, "What?" The guy does the same thing again. The sponsor says, "Look, just SAY it." So, the guy finally says, "Well.... I had sex with a chicken." His sponsor didn't gasp, didn't judge or reject him, just looked at him a quick minute, then asked, "Did your chicken die?" The guy says, "No." Sponsor says, "Heck, mine DID!!"
lol... I first heard this 3 years back at a convention, yup, that's a good one... there's lot more similar stuff available in our NA Humor book available along with other literature from WSO called "Slugfest" if I remember right... there, in this book, believe me, we can find each one of us in the NA characters that have been created therein, check it out family, this NA humor book...
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
I don't think it's silly to be concerned about stuff that one feels is hindering their spiritual growth. No offense at all Dean, but just because it's not sodomy or rape the guy is talking about, doesn't mean it's just silly. I realize you're just making a joke, and maybe I'm being too serious here, but I think it's our responsibility to try the best we can to support people in their struggles, not make light of them or poke fun. ::off my soapbox::
I.A.G. now you're being silly too. And so that I don't feel like you're singling me out for ridicule, I expect for you to lecture Dan H about his chicken joke.
hey we can't just say what we have to say without putting down what others have to say, is that it? How silly, eh
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
I know I take everything so serious that humor is often what I need to remain SANE I have been dealing with an issue with my truck for over a week now we thought we had it fixed and tonight I once again won't start up and needs to go back in the shop tomorrow I lost a whole week of work last week I was forced to take a vacation an not do anything but work on the truck and have it in the shop all week now monday rolls around luckily I am not scheduled for work tomorrow . I have to deal with the mechanic i Just left him a message that the truck will be towed in tomorrow and I NEED it fixed TOMORROW I tried to hold down the frustration he's gotten nealry $1,000 from me on this deal now but the only thing I can do is try to keep some humor and turn it over to my higher power.
I had sex issues that I put off dealing with and sharing for a long time once I shared them I finally started getting some where , my drug of choice is crack with a sex addiction involved, wont go into detail but trust me I didn't stop using until I could face that other issue and come to terms with it the two went hand in hand so to speak LOL.
Lots of things are going to come up that aren't pretty , oh well we're only human and not perfect not saints never will be gotta accept that and move on .
Honesty openmindedness and willingness the 3 musts.
good luck with your truck BigV. Time for a different mechanic, sounds like. Btw, renting a truck for a week is cheaper than not working
Going to look into it today Dean thing is the problem I am having is under warranty with that mechanic I think he may be avoiding having to replace the new fuel pump but this morning he's gonna get orders from me to do just that or face me in small claims court.
Yeah I will use all the spirituality I can muster i understand things happen but he needs to do the job he got payed to do.
Yes watch it Big V,, I had 25 pounds taken off me for a dent job. The weird thing is that the mechanic hadnt done much and gave justifications about why he couldnt. I wanted to shout at him and say "well you motherfukker,,,youre the mechanic, you should have known that fore you took the job. " I dont knw why but i was trying to be a nice guy and ailowed him to take 25 pounds for nothing. Latre I was so resentful that i didnt speak up for myself,. I was thinki9ng how i should have said "Im not paying you for that,,you did nothing " God I wish i had,, without worrying what will happen.
And hey yes,,,I hope i havent offended anyone with details,,, but thanks. It saved me from a wank last nite.
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
The only thought that I have on this is that usually, it is our thoughts that get us into trouble in the first place. The negativity that seems to be wired into us allows us to keep ourselves seperate from everyone else. Sometimes, it is hard to share something really personal with someone in the program when we are not 100% in the trust department and we go into a room and hear gossip before and after. I would suggest talking to a priest. Here in Calgary people with a lot of deep dark things go to The Mount just outside of town and sit down with a priest and start to clean off their slate. A lot of people that I ahve talked to that have done it have said that after they started to say the stuff out loud it did nto seem to be as bad as they thought...Back to the negativity.
NA ((((HUGS)))) and good luck.
Kathleen
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Yes, I bought a ticket on the crazy train.....Good thing it was a return ticket.
kitizzy wrote:A lot of people that I ahve talked to that have done it have said that after they started to say the stuff out loud it did nto seem to be as bad as they thought...
Here here
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
I wish there was a qucik ,off the cuff sort of answer for our thinking problems,,. there isnt.
In my exoerience as well as many others ive heard or read about,,finding out exact nature of wrongs requires understandin and a non judgemental attitude on the part of the "hearer". Confession may not be the answer,, and what if i come from a background that dosent require confession ? What works for someone amynot work for another. Yes,,I did try the office of confession. I havent been very comfortable with that. As Ive understood,,problems connected with food,sex,money are not things I just confess about and theyre gone after that. No,, it is a process of repeating behaviours that work for me,,and distancing myself form people,places and things that really dont guide me along in my recovery.
My sponsor has been the best person to share with.
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
I agree that it's not only important that I get all my secrets out of my system by sharing them with another person, but also, the most important healing and liberation that happens as a result is the way the other person relates and responds to what I have shared.
I have done my Fourth once with my Substance Abuse Counselor, long before I got to pick up a Sponsor in NA, and yes, even though she couldn't relate with what I shared, she responded with understanding, care and support. I was neither judged nor rejected just because the other person knew me inside out now. That helped me a lot to liberate myself from my guilt and shame, and to look at what had happened in my past with a different, neutral and right perspective.
Once, I did my Eighth and Ninth in a church, with the help of another AA member, in the presence of God, and that was again a miraculous, healing and liberating experience.
But nothing like what I gained when I did my Fourth and Fifth with a NA Sponsor, with someone who has been there, done all that, and have found a new way to look at it all, and moved on with the help of the Steps. The wisdom I gained through the mutual experience, strength and hope that was shared by me as well as by my Sponsor during my Fourth and Fifth is incomparable.
Also, this line from Basic Text has always guided me to share something which is very private and intimate with the right person, be it inside NA or outside...
"We must carefully choose the person who is to hear our Fifth Step... Although there is no hard rule about whom we should choose, it is important that we trust the person." Basic Text pg 31 step 5
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"If we do an honest examination of exactly what we are giving, we are better able to evaluate the results we are getting."Chapter 10 - Emotional Pain - NA Way of Life.
yes indeed and another part of the TEXT says "another addict will be less likely to judge". I really thank God that even the counsellor who i did my 1st 4th Step with was a wonderful recovering addict too. Poor guy died year before last,,RIP.Carl. And our NA book on Sponsorship tops it all,,,
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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!
I don't think it's silly to be concerned about stuff that one feels is hindering their spiritual growth. No offense at all Dean, but just because it's not sodomy or rape the guy is talking about, doesn't mean it's just silly. I realize you're just making a joke, and maybe I'm being too serious here, but I think it's our responsibility to try the best we can to support people in their struggles, not make light of them or poke fun. ::off my soapbox::
I.A.G. now you're being silly too. And so that I don't feel like you're singling me out for ridicule, I expect for you to lecture Dan H about his chicken joke.
How's that for being silly?
Now, that's just silly.
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"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." ~Oscar Wilde~
i am sure you have not done anything any worse than i. i was told that i am not unique...thats a good thing! i also heard "let go or get dragged!" letting go of the past is hard....staying high or drunk is harder...for me anyway.have you gotten a sponcer???? talking about, or journaling for me i have found causes things to loose their power.
I have been dealing with an issue with my truck for over a week now we thought we had it fixed and tonight I once again won't start up and needs to go back in the shop tomorrow I lost a whole week of work last week I was forced to take a vacation an not do anything but work on the truck and have it in the shop all week now monday rolls around luckily I am not scheduled for work tomorrow . I have to deal with the mechanic i Just left him a message that the truck will be towed in tomorrow and I NEED it fixed TOMORROW I tried to hold down the frustration he's gotten nealry $1,000 from me on this deal now but the only thing I can do is try to keep some humor and turn it over to my higher power.
