I'm not sure why a person who used can't speak. That makes no sense. Part of the value of the meetings is being able to speak. I don't get that.

However I disagree with this. "Everyone should speak until they are heard."

There is no right to be heard. My hearing you is about me. You have no right to assume on what I will or will not hear. That's a boundary issue. You have every right to speak. You have no right to expect to be heard. Those a two different things. If you feel hurt as you weren't "heard", you are setting yourself up for disappointment based on your expectation, not reality. If you feel hurt because you didn't get an opportunity to speak, well of course.

I still don't get the rule not to speak in a meeting if you used that day though. Something is goofed about that.

well,, in my own understanding the fact that most groups round the world dont allow anyone who has used that day to speak is connected to the Fifth radition of carrying the message ( being clean and in recovery) to the addict that still suffers.
 
We actually carry the Steps in that Tradition,,thats the only Tradition that has an exact wording in the Steps too,, the 12th. 
So the 12th Step and the 5th Tradition say the same thing= Carry the message(of clean time and recovery) to the addict that still suffers. 

Its like if we were still using,, a message from another addict thats still using wont make sense. 
In effect when we are in meeting we need to ensure a drug free atmosphere,and also make certain that the newcomer isnt given an excuse to use. 
Thats what the Text says.
Think about this=
 If one were a newcomer in an NA meeting and had to hear sharings from using addicts,,what will be ones impression ?

-- Edited by Raman at 20:23, 2008-10-08

Hi nikky , My home group as part of the meeting opening reads on this very thing. My mind is shot so i cant remember which sheet it is from, but the quote as best i remember is. " if you have used today ,please listen and talk with someone after the meeting." 

  While Ive never given it much thought, I have to admit its never jumped up and gotten my attention. Its certainly something worth pondering. I would imagine those that came before had good reason to include that line.

   As for the " government  " line it had to be just a simple mis-speak. If we substitute conscious for government we have 'group conscious ." And that's exactly how these things are settled. You know your sponsor well and know the attitude it was spoken with. You do whats best for you.My gut says after 18 years your sponsor knew better, But shes allowed to be as sick as any of us.


  Also good luck with your non-smoking meetings, I'm a smoker myself but am disgusted by it, and want badly to quit. One thing at a time.

  Thanks for the interesting post.

   Ohh  p.s. one more quote.

   " When you look at another or look at yourself,look at the strength with pride, and the weakness with compassion "
       Jimmy K.

 

the Serenity prayer will be useless and meaningless
if all situations that I am in are tailor made to my attitudes and thinking and whats right and wrong according to me.
Ive learnt the hard way to accept these things,,
its like
GOD HELP ME CHANGE THE THINGS I CANNOT STAND
BUT GOD
HELP ME STAND THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE !!!
I ,,AN ADDICT,,NEVER SEEM TO SIRREDER WITHOUT A STRUGGLE,,
THEREBY HAVE I LOST PRCIOUS DIGNITY IN MAQNY SITUATIONS WHERE ID HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF SAYING YES TO WAHT WAS SUGGESTED AND MOVE ON FROM THERE !!!!

Tahir wrote:

---

I was asked in my first NA meeting if I wanted to share something, I told the Chairperson that I had used that day, but he said that's ok. I expressed a few words. Even if I was stoned a bit, for the first time in a room full of people who have found a new way to live, I expressed it loud that I don't want to use, that I wanna stop using, that I wanna stay clean, and that I needed their help.

The very fact that I was made so welcome and was accepted there at my first meeting made me go to a NA meeting again. I'm grateful to that group and the chairperson for allowing me to express that one thing which gave me the strength I so desperately needed back then, the moment those words came out of my mouth at that meeting, a genuine desire to stop using was born within me... Just my experience.

---

My first go around in NA 1983 for 8 years I thought it was some cult and boy was I going to break that code. 

Doing it MY WAY left me as I came in with a big black hole in the middle of my soul.  I may have "earned" my seat, drank coffee  and well folks that was about it.......More research and developement and maybe a happy liver.

The NA jargon what I have  learned over the past 7 months and 14 days is how addicts before me have worked the steps,  got a sponsor,  bonded and had a home group with people who really really care about me.  ONE DAY AT A TIME I didnt have to ever get high again.  Its a GREAT DAY BEING CLEAN,  Not trying to get CLEAN.

My higherpower is working thru the fellowship and me  in my new found bliss.

I wish you all can have this.  I assure you its not a pink cloud thing.  Its a finally facing a reality vs. fantasy which in my family of origin and my early days protected me......but today I am ok with finally growing up.

Ive experienced Guidance form God when I Pray and then Meditate.
Prayer=voicing my concerns. I also worship in some form. Coming form a Hindu background each day I worship according to Hindu rites and then also aply the Principle that True Worship is an attempt to go past the basic shortcoming of self centredness.
Now whats Meditation then ?
Simply stated Meditation is the Art Of Listening,,to the answers I sought.
Many times the answers I get are obvious and" staring in the face" type and at other times Ive had to work towards solutions. and go through a process of search and research.
Answers maynot be exctly as I wanted or wished but have always been the ones that are congruent to my recovery !!
Thats why I say God is Great,,
I am Greatful to God,,
Not only for what I have
but also the things i dont have,,but would like to have,but am not ready for yet !

thanks for those shares, very true, the moment we get in touch with the fellowship/meetings, and thus eventually with our Sponsor and through the Sponsorship, when we learn to work the Steps in our daily lives, we surely move away from self-will, which I prefer calling "my addictive will", as I've come to an understanding today with the help of the Twelve Steps that my true self is actually a place where my Higher Power resides, and as such, when I practice my daily life in accordance with the principles contained in the Twelve Steps, I get in touch with what my true self-will actually is as compared to what I (my dis-eased head) think my self and self-will is. This wisdom to know the difference surely only comes to me when I work the Steps, especially Steps 4-11. As a result, many a times I have come to a realization where it dawned on me that by trying to live a principle-based recovery, I actually end up placing my will in harmony with my Higher Power's will for me, as verily promised by our Program

Just like Raman expressed above, I remember reading our literature sometime back where it says that NA meetings are for sharing our recovery with each other, not to discuss the latest controversial issues or to boast of our war stories... lol... Our literature clearly says that NA meetings is a place where each of us share how practising the Twelve Steps has helped/helps us recover and grow.

I have felt strongly at various times in my recovery about the above guideline as well as other guidelines as to how meetings should be conducted or how members should share. After much frustration and indifference (2 prominent defects that I make use of at such instances... lol...) followed by a self-righteous know-it-all trip (the big con that I pull on myself). After much struggle to implement/insist/impose these NA suggestions/guidelines, I realized that I cannot possibly demand such perfection (again a defect) or proclaim that those who don't share or conduct meetings as is supposed to are wrong

I realized how important it is for me to practice principles of unity, surrender and flexibility while working these issues. I found that it's not about 'them' or who is breaching suggested guidelines and blah blah blah... IT WAS ABOUT ME! It was my inability to fit in as a constructive part of a group of addicts, in fact, any group outside NA like family at home or colleagues at work. It's my inability to accept people as they are, with all their faults and flaws, and still learn to function as part of a group, any group. I found out with the help of my Sponsor and a thorough inventory that it was my same old pattern (well, not exactly old as I was still using these patterns) that made me use for half my life. My father should not be so and so, my mother shouldn't have said so and so, my brother must not have done such a terrible thing to me, I'm smarter than the other guys at school, 'they' don't know how to do it-I must teach them by sharing how I know better... lol...

Same stuff, manifesting in a different setting now after having stopped using - in NA

Today, I'm more at peace, and more calmer with things going in a particular way, be it at recovery or service meetings in NA. I make it a point that I'm in constant remembrance of the fact that not me, but a Higher Power is in charge of us. I don't fret or fume no more. I rather use this as an opportunity to practice patience, acceptance, tolerance and empathy. When I see that what someone says or does in the fellowship is disturbing me, I look deeper to recollect and remind myself that I've done the same, that I continue to do the same in other contexts or areas of my life. As a result, I allow myself to actually feel empathy. With that feeling, I reach out with love to the person I was annoyed with earlier.

Today, in NA, there's so much of variety and different perspectives/philosophies, that tolerance has become an important aspect of my recovery to just watch it all go by without reacting to it, and acceptance teaches me to own and embrace everything and everyone around me as it transpires. For many years, all this sounded so difficult to believe, nay impossible, but today, yes, my Higher Power, the 12 Steps and the Fellowship does make it all possible for me to experience this kind of a bliss if I so choose to and open my mind. Anger, resentment, frustration, self-righteousness etc. can be actually turned around to my advantage and growth with the help of the Steps, what a miraculous paradox it is, ain't it

I never understood what my Sponsor meant by "growth is where your defects are". After opening my mind and working my Sixth and Seventh Steps for sometime now, I now know what my Sponsor meant... Thanks for such a wonderful topic, and the great shares by each one of you that provoked me to reflect deeper as to where I stand today in these areas of my recovery. Grateful to be part of this awesome family at MIP.

NA Hugs & Fellowship Love.

Yep, back in my hometown, in the fellowship, that's how they've been doing it for years now, accomodating a newcomer or a member who has relapsed at the end of the meeting time under the section "burning desire".

In fact, even here in our Area's fellowship, at Reality Group once, I've seen a member who had relapsed requesting to share at the end of a meeting, so all those who were present decided that we will hear him out. This member shared his heart out about his relapse and him wanting to stop again. As a result, he came back to staying clean from the next day onwards, he is still clean

Sometimes, I've observed that there may be a general set of instructions/guidelines that avoid any pitfalls/loopholes in NA, but at times, something special does happen in the magic of the moment, beyond we unmanageable addicts who try to run things as best as we possibly could, as if a Power greater than us is at work, and I've surrendered to such moments too. As a result, I've witnessed/experienced great miracles

That makes me more grateful that we do have this awesome spiritual program, a 'feeling' program for our hearts and conscience rather than a 'thinking' one for just our brains... lol... Indeed, the miracle of the 12 Steps is way beyond our mental reasoning and intellectual logic The spiritual reality of living the NA Program is far greater than what our limited minds could possibly comprehend.

Raman, at Jyothi Group, now, there are wonderful committed members who work as a strong family unit, caring and sharing with each other in very loving way today. It's a great experience to just come together twice a week with this homegroup family, I cherish it. We all take turns to Chair our meetings now, and each of us is very accomodative and caring and at the same time, are very good at seeing to it that the atmosphere of recovery is maintained and ensure that the primary purpose of a NA meeting is the focus, but in very loving ways, and believe me, all the disruptive behavior that sometimes is a reality at our meetings does succumb and cease to our kind and loving approach as Chair of the meeting most of the times. At times, we miss members of our group like you or Paul, but I've come to experience once again that the Divine Force that is in charge of running NA and our meetings does find and provide other Tahirs, Ramans and Pauls in his own mysterious and unbelievable ways to run our group and meetings

Today, our group conscience meetings are amazingly spiritual. We seldom have "voted" for many consciences recently. We just discuss and investigate the issue in detail, and arrive at an unanimous decision everytime, as if we all are being influenced by our Higher Power as to what direction we as a group need to take. Amazing to be part of such experiences. Our group meetings have become one of the most attractive recovery meetings in town, always full room and jam-packed!!!

I just wanted to share this recent miraculous turn of events with you as I was sure it would bring joy to you

I'm here in my hometown now as my father has passed on. I got the news of his passing away when I was in the sunday morning meeting at St. Rocks. I felt so grateful that my Higher Power had me inside a NA meeting room when I got the news of the death of my father. I feel so grateful that I did not have to get high to be able to face this loss and grief. I'm grateful that I'm Clean Just For Today, grieving and supporting my other loved ones in this time of pain and loss. There are moments when I do get these episodic bursts of anger on reality/Higher Power for taking away my father, unbearable pain, despair and powerlessness that I couldn't possibly do a thing to change what has happened, at least for a minute or two, now and then, but I experience even these moments CLEAN!!! I'm amazed that I could do that today without having to use... The support of the fellowship and members have also been a major help, the visits, the phonecalls, the messages, helping/making arrangements for the funeral, allowing me to cry in the much-needed warmth of their hugs... they have all been awesome, being there for me, with me. Just For Today, I never have to use again, no matter what, come hell or high water... I'm alone no more

My deepest condolences to you Tahir, for your loss.  You and your father will be in my prayers.  I lost my father about 5 years ago last month.  I was feeling a little guilty that I was in Washington DC last week (he is burried at Arlington National Cemetary) and didn't visit his grave.  I haven't been able to go there and I don't know why.  I know that I have been intentionally not remembering the exact day he passed, as I don't want to feel a certain way on that certain day, but remember him from time to time during that month instead. 

Dean