I figure it this way Jayson, I try not to question what others do unless they ask for help, usually what I tell them is though we all have the same disease here we dont all have the very same exact program, its a process in it self finding what we need individually.

Sooner or later if we have lagged on something and not done the work it will come back to bite us. In the last 19 months which I will have in just a few days I have had to read thru almost all the steps again and take inventory at one time or another. I have had to ask myself is my house clean, why am I still doing certain things that are hurting me and others, that one espcecially. I have asked myself why I don't feel closer to my God, am I just not listening or is something standing inbetween us.

I will say to the  new person to the program  what Jayson says is true, you have to put as much if not more energy into staying clean as you did getting out there and coping dope. I walked thru rain, sleet, hail, searing summer heat to get dope, sometimes MILES sometimes miles and miles all night long back and fourth.  I was willing to give up my freedom in society just to get high, I was willing to steal anything not bolted down, I was thoughtless and careless.

I've had to do a lot of opposites of what I was used to doing that alone was hard retraining myself not to lie cheat steal, thats what i was used to .

This is a better life being clean and sober I had a severe alcohol problem and i ALWAYS put 2 dollars in the basket wherever I am, thats funny you should mention that.

HOpe you are feeling well Jayson, I shot you a message on myspace with my number.

The question of just how Narcotics Anonymous relates to all other fellowships and organizations is one which may generate controversy within our fellowship. In spite of the fact that we have a stated policy of "cooperation, not affiliation" with outside organizations confusion remains. One such sensitive issue involves our relationship to the Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous. Letters have been received by the World Service Board of Trustees asking a variety of questions about this relationship.

Narcotics Anonymous is modeled after Alcoholics Anonymous. Nearly every NA community in existence has leaned to some degree on AA in its formative stages. Our relationship with that fellowship over the years has been very real and dynamic. Our fellowship itself sprang from the turmoil within AA over what to do with the addicts knocking on its doors. We will look at our roots for some perspective on our current relationship to AA.

Bill W, one of AA's co-founders, often said that one of AA's greatest strengths is its single-minded focus on one thing and one thing only. By limiting its primary purpose to carrying the message to alcoholics, and avoiding all other activities, AA is able to do that one thing supremely well. The atmosphere of identification is preserved by that purity of focus, and alcoholics get help.

From very early on, AA was confronted by a perplexing problem: "What do we do with drug addicts? We want to keep our focus on alcohol so the alcoholic hears the message, but these addicts come in here talking about drugs, inadvertently weakening our atmosphere of identification." The steps were written, the Big Book was writtenwhat were they supposed to do, rewrite it all? Allow the atmosphere of identification to get blurry so that no one got a clear sense of belonging? Kick these dying people back out into the streets? The problem must have been a tremendous one for them.

When they finally studied the problem carefully and took a stand in their literature, the solution they outlined possessed their characteristic common sense and wisdom. They pledged their support in a spirit of "cooperation, not affiliation." This farsighted solution to a difficult concern paved the way for the development of the Narcotics Anonymous Fellowship.

But still, the problem that they wished to avoid would have to be addressed by any group that tried to adapt AAs program of recovery to drug addicts. How do you achieve the atmosphere of identification so necessary for surrender and recovery if you let all different kinds of addicts in? Can someone with a heroin problem relate to someone with an alcohol or marijuana or Valium problem? How will you ever achieve the unity that the First Tradition says is necessary for recovery? Our fellowship inherited a tough dilemma.

For some perspective on how we handled that dilemma, one more look at AA history is helpful. Another thing Bill W. frequently wrote and spoke about was what he called the "tenstrike" of AAthe wording of the Third and Eleventh Steps. The whole area of spirituality versus religion was as perplexing for them as unity was for us. Bill liked to recount that the simple addition of the words "as we understood Him" after the word "God" killed that controversy in one chop. An issue that had the potential to divide and destroy AA was converted into the cornerstone of the program by that simple turn of phrase.

As the founders of Narcotics Anonymous adapted our steps, they came up with a "tenstrike" of perhaps equal importance. Rather than converting the First Step in a natural, logical way ("we admitted that we were powerless over drugs..."), they made a radical change in that step. They wrote, "We admitted that we were powerless over our addiction..." Drugs are a varied group of substances, the use of any of which is but a symptom of our disease. When addicts gather and focus on drugs, they are usually focusing on their differences, because each of us used a different drug or combination of drugs. The one thing that we all share is the disease of addiction. With that single turn of a phrase, the foundation of the Narcotics Anonymous Fellowship was laid.

Our First Step gives us one focus: our addiction. The wording of Step One also takes the focus of our powerlessness off the symptom and places it on the disease itself. The phrase "powerless over a drug" does not go far enough for most of us in recoverythe desire to use has been removedbut "powerless over our addiction" is as relevant to the oldtimer as it is to the newcomer. Our addiction begins to resurface and cause unmanageability in our thoughts and feelings whenever we become complacent in our program of recovery. This process has nothing to do with "drug of choice." We guard against the recurrence of our drug use by applying our spiritual principles, before a relapse. Our First Step applies regardless of drug of choice and length of clean time. With this "tenstrike" as its foundation, NA has begun to flourish as a major worldwide organization, clearly focusing on addiction..

As any NA community matures in its understanding of its own principles (particularly Step One), an interesting fact emerges. The AA perspective, with its alcohol-oriented language, and the NA approach, with its clear need to shift the focus away from specific drugs, dont mix well. When we try to mix them, we find that we have the same problem as AA had with us all along! When our members identify as "addicts and alcoholics" or talk about "sobriety" and living "clean and sober," the clarity of the NA message is blurred. The implication in this language is that there are two diseases, that one drug is separate from another, so a separate set of terms is needed when discussing addiction. At first glance this seems minor, but our experience clearly shows that the full impact of the NA message is crippled by this subtle semantic confusion.

It has become clear that our common identification, our unity, and our full surrender as addicts depends on a clear understanding of our most fundamental principles: We are powerless over a disease that gets progressively worse when we use any drug. It does not matter what drug was at the center for us when we arrived. Any drug we use will release our disease all over again. We recover from the disease of addiction by applying our Twelve Steps. Our steps are uniquely worded to carry this message clearly, so the rest of our language of recovery must be consistent with our steps. We cannot mix these fundamental principles with those of our parent fellowship without crippling our own message.

Both fellowships have a Sixth Tradition for a reason: to keep each one from being diverted from its own primary purpose. Because of the inherent need of a Twelve Step fellowship to focus on one thing and one thing only, so that it can do that one thing supremely well, each Twelve Step fellowship must stand alone, unaffiliated with everything else. It is in our nature to be separate, to feel separate, and use a separate set of recovery terms, because we each have a separate, unique primary purpose. The focus of AA is on the alcoholic, and we ought to respect that fellowships perfect right to adhere to its own traditions and protect its focus. If we cannot use language consistent with that, we ought not go to their meetings and undermine that atmosphere. In the same way, we NA members ought to respect our own primary purpose and identify ourselves at NA meetings simply as addicts, and share in a way that keeps our message clear.

A casual, cursory glance at AAs success in delivering recovery to alcoholics over the years makes it abundantly clear that theirs is a successful program. Their literature, their service structure, the quality of their members' recovery, their sheer numbers, the respect they enjoy from societythese things speak for themselves. Our members ought not embarrass us by adopting a "we're better than them" posture. That can only be counterproductive.

As a fellowship, we must continue to strive to move forward by not stubbornly clinging to one radical extreme or the other. Our members who have been unintentionally blurring the NA message by using drug-specific language such as "sobriety," "alcoholic," "clean and sober," "dope fiend," etc., could help by identifying simply and clearly as addicts, and using the words "clean," "clean time," and "recovery," which imply no particular substance. We all could help by referring to only our own literature at meetings, thereby avoiding any implied endorsement or affiliation. Our principles stand on their own. For the sake of our development as a fellowship and the personal recovery of our members, our approach to the problem of addiction must shine through clearly in what we say and do at meetings.

Our members who have used these arguments to rationalize an anti-AA stand, thereby alienating many sorely needed stable members, would do well to re-evaluate and reconsider the effects of that kind of behavior. Narcotics Anonymous is a spiritual fellowship. Love, tolerance, patience, and cooperation are essential if we are to live our principles.

Let's devote our energies to our personal spiritual development through our own Twelve Steps. Let's carry our own message clearly. There's a lot of work to be done, and we need each other if we are to be effective. Let's move forward in a spirit of NA unity.

(Reprinted from Newsline Vol. 2, No. 6.)

senseijc wrote: if you got two diseases, put two dollars in the basket.

 That's a funny one that I've never heard before...

I go to both programs, and have found nothing but warmth and help from both fellowships.  Out of respect, I say I am an alcoholic in AA meetings.

When my wife of twenty five years told me "we're done" I felt like killing myself. Out of deperation, I ended up at a men's AA meeting, and bared my soul. The support and understanding those guys  shared with me regarding divorce was far more then any I received from all of my  NA meetings.  It seemed at least half of the guys had gone through similiar pain, so we had that in common.

When I share the story at my NA meetings, most of the people aren't even married yet, much less divorced.

Don't get me wrong I AM an addict, always will be. NA has saved my life. To me I don't really care what a person says he is, addict, alcoholic, cross addicted, whatever. However I do know that at some AA meetings they don't want you to talk about drugs, and I don't attend those groups.....

Daer Ones,

I go to A.A. and I have gone to N.A. My comfortability is where God wants me to be.
As for the Alcoholic and addict the confusion about the two and them being split it is sad. Because A.A. addressed both ALcohol and drug addiction in the Big Book. Yes, you have to have an alcohol problem as well as a drug problem to be a member.

FUnny thing is that after being Sober and Recovering for 6, 7 years I was diagnosed Bi-Polar. That really threw a monkey wrench in the mix.

I have a 14 year Recovery Birthday coming up pretty soon the 19th of February. I am getting as many Birthday chips as I can collect. WHY? I earned them. I look at it this way. I started drinking and using at 13 years old. Now I am a Child of GOd that is a 14 year old teenager Recovering Alcoholic-Addict- with Co-occuring disorders. Finally, it is going the other direction.

i dont judge other people. i never do believe me. i have no right to judge anyone. i was telling my story of a meeting i started 7 years ago. and what i would do different or do now.    Then someone bost that they went to a few AA meetings so
that they could do there 90 in 90. Why? When I got clean there
was only 4 meetings a week in my home town. I had no car. We
didn't have things like the internet, or cell phones. I lived
in a homeless shelter. I had nothing! Nothing that is except
 the desire to stop using. I went to 90+ Narcotics Anonymous
meetings in 90 days. How? I did what it took. If I had to walk,
I walked. My life depended on it.
     What are you willing to do? Go ahead disign your own program.
 My old  program almost killed me, because i dont listen at meetings and i did everything i could to say fuck this i dont need it im not like you. then i want back to drugs and i want to the hospital after trying to kill myself. i realized than that i need these meetings and my program the program that worked for me more than 213 days now. like i  said i dont judge anyone at all. so dont judge me for telling my feelings. thank you jayson cole

all said n done
'resu;ts co8nt in recovery'
I've recovered only in NA::::
hat has worked fr me is 1 addict helping another in NA.
I've learnt th hard way only anothr addict will be less likely to b judgemental;;
thanks NA::fpr kee-ing me clean and serene these past 20 odd years,,,and GOD BLESS ALL THE ADDICTS WHEREVER THEY MAYBE !!!