i was wondering to where the sticky went... i have not done any work with the traditions so didn't feel i had any input but i was following along and learning from your shares.. so thankyou and happy to see them stickied again

If thats the case Raman then we need to get some sort of approval to use the literature on this board???? And how do we go about doing that you guys are a lot more invovled in the politics of NA then anyone else......

-- Edited by BigV at 10:25, 2007-11-22

Raman,

I'm with you on that! We can all read for ourselves. Heck, it might even be good for us.

Reading from our persoanl copies and then sharing our individual experiences may be the best bet for us here at MIP to steer clear of dogged controversy,,,
acrimonious debate and all such that will vitiate the serene atmosphere here and divert us from more closely associating and identifying with each other in recovery !!
I feel comfortable to stay within the copyright laws and Fellowship policies !!!

As I understand after reading reports the NAWS policy is we dont post approved literature because that may affect literature sales,,,NAWS funds are mostly from literature sales worldwide !!
They never said not to use the NA name,,,they just dont want approved literature to be posted on internet,,, that may be equeal to piracy,,, copyright infringements and most importantly dent Worldwide sales of NA Literature !!!
So next thing is=
if the literature that was posted here wasnt NA approved,,, then why should we be reading it anyway ?
It obviously didnt get approved in that particular Conference simply because it didnt qualify for approval for some reason or the other,,, so indeed anyone that reads it now may get the wrong message !!!
So why post non-approved literature at all ?
And whay wasnt the sounces indicated,,,
isnt it correct to at least mention sources???

-- Edited by Raman at 15:46, 2007-11-25

-- Edited by Tahir at 14:30, 2007-11-26

PS I want all to know that if what I said was considered "flaming" that was not my intention. My intention was to bring to light that world isn't everything in NA today.

What is? It's US, the ADDICTS who are in recovery and carrying the message to all that want to hear it.

What I said was to help some understand that world might not be all about carrying that mesage of recovery...and that is my personal opinion. We do more as groups than world can ever do. Another opinion of mine :)

Anyway, together WE CAN....and let's not worry so much about what world thinks today :) LOL

yes Kenh,,, great suggestion !!!
In fact Tahir has again taken personal affront by me forwarding a different point of view !!
I dont know how he manages but if i take that tack my life will immediately be
very unmanageable !!!
Many of us will admit powerlessness over addictioon but still believe we can manage our own lives !!!
In fact my suggestion to Tahir is to be constructive and instead of taking things as a personal affront,,, instead of posting for NA approved litt,,, why dont you post the exact text from the PR handbook that will help you show us whats right !!!
Instead of critisising me why cant YOU be more forthcoming and post those exact paras from the PR handbook that will validate your viewpoint rather than commanding me to read it !!!
As for the other million things you may want to say about me remember
first of all i care a damn what u think of me personally,,,ive had about enuff of you trying to push things here in the local Fellowship and then right here at this Forum !!!
Second remember i too can say a lot about you too,,, so dont start that !!
You learn to let go and stop confusing people here about the real issue=
what we share here is our sharing and to draw a parallel with this and posting of NA approved literature is irrational !!
Seems like most of us want to share about us with each other,,, so why is that being vitiated by you ?
remember that an honest and simple sharing about our own selves with each other is what the therupatic value of one addict helping another in NA is !!
And dont you ever lecture me on what I need to do,,, show it by doing it yourself first !!!

whats my problem ?
I have no problem,, ur the one making it !!
your insinuation that i must leave people alone is ridiculous,,
I just wanted some fact finding,,,also what members will want to do !!
U are no one to convince me that I am wrong and you are right !!!
Im in this discussion simply because U r the ones who have been having your way all along while i remained a mute spectator !!
thats to mean you and Tahir,,, probably because u r buddies form another Forum !!
the world can do what it wants,,, all I want to do is to keep within the right thing for the right reason !!
i belong primarily in this Forum only,,
I want to be able to read shares and share what works !
not adverb posts from some other time whose source is not given credit,,
not quotations from religious and philosophical systems,
and whats wrong in bringing forth what I think is right ?
arent you of the same desire too ?
what about the request to post the lines from the PR Handbook that says something in this context ?

-- Edited by Raman at 15:19, 2007-11-26

Raman wrote:

---

whats my problem ?
I have no problem,, ur the one making it !!
your insinuation that i must leave people alone is ridiculous,,
I just wanted some fact finding,,,also what members will want to do !!
U are no one to convince me that I am wrong and you are right !!!
Im in this discussion simply because U r the ones who have been having your way all along while i remained a mute spectator !!
thats to mean you and Tahir,,, probably because u r buddies form another Forum !!
the world can do what it wants,,, all I want to do is to keep within the right thing for the right reason !!
i belong primarily in this Forum only,,
I want to be able to read shares and share what works !
not adverb posts from some other time whose source is not given credit,,
not quotations from religious and philosophical systems,
and whats wrong in bringing forth what I think is right ?
arent you of the same desire too ?
what about the request to post the lines from the PR Handbook that says something in this context ?

---

I feel deeply offended by this post as it came to my notice only now, at this point of time. Sorry there is a limit to tolerating direct open abuse.

On one side, a member objects to posting NA recovering addicts' experience, strength and hope here at the forum and on the other side the same member continues to post unthinkable, ugly, nauseating abuse on other members? Members here I see are quick to at least comment on literature posts here, but at the same time are silent on this one member's non-stop control trip where he admonishes everyone to beware of getting cross with him? What has happened to sharing and caring the NA way... Why are we silent here? is NA not about freedom? Is LIVE AND LET LIVE not one of our recovery slogans?

I haven't even spoken anything personal about Raman here in my posts, and he has manufactured the most sickest unrecognizable stuff about me? That I'm making a careeer out of NA? That me and Glora are some close buddies from another forum who have come here with an ulterior motive? What kind of a sick, crazy, concocted imagination are you indulging in Raman? No one here is there to get you. Your feeling threatened and insecure is your own feelings that you're projecting on me and others here. I have always tried to open my heart to you here whenever you have shared. And I have always responded here to others' shares by sharing my own experiences, strength and hope. On the contrary, I have seen you give advice, offend and abuse others on a few occasions.

You ask me not to confuse others, I never even thought of a necessity to confuse anyone about anything here. Is it so that you're trying to do that? I'm sure you know you're doing that, you just don't care because you're thinking you'll have your free ride as you please... There is a God, remember, and that's neither you nor me. What you put into a situation is what you'll get. I let go of it, surrender, only to find another insinuating and insulting post here and then dragging other members into it too...

Just a month back, you offend a new member here for posting his experiences from his religious principles to the extent where he stops posting here, then the very next day, you directly and freely post and quote from religious texts! Now what kind of an insanity is that?

You accuse me of being pushy in our local fellowship here. Then how is it that I'm able to work in perfect harmony along with the whole fellowship here in NA service, but you're not even able to enter a recovery setting in our fellowship? Is it so that the whole fellowship is sick or can it be the other way around? You don't even know that the only person I've heard speak good of you and stand for you with other members here in B'lore is MYSELF! I have always tried to give you the benefit of doubt, let go of your misdemeanor time and again, trusted that things will improve, but you still want to trample on everyone that you possibly could. Who has been giving lectures here in the last few posts? It's only you alone... Who are you to challenge anybody here without being invited? Is that what the NA program taught you? You have no right doing that. You were never comfortable with Traditions, you hate them, the whole fellowship knows it from years... And suddenly just because it helps you build a case, you stand for the same Traditions that despise you, and concoct a breach where there was none? What about the First Tradition? Are you not breaking it? What about the Twelfth Tradition? Did you not break it when you attacked me personally that too with a weird unrecognizable unreal fact about my personal life? Is that how you practice anonymity that you so much claim to every now and then? On one side, you insist at the local fellowship that some Hazelden Prayer must be part of the NA meetings, and on the other side, you object to literature which was written by the addicts for the addicts in NA being posted here? And you opposed this Hazelden Prayer yourself, but just because the people you don't like feel the same, you take the opposite stand and support it instead? I remember you ridiculing and putting down religion because someone sounded religious here saying it breaches a tradition, but did you not breach the same tradition in the most insulting manner by expressing a hateful opinion on religions of the world, which is an outside issue?

You are not even someone with whom I should be trying to make sense to. You are so heartless, so ruthless, so filthy in your comments towards others... Is there anyone in NA with whom you were ever able to have a long-lasting relationship where mutual respect was involved?

What you have said about me till now has been some weird concocted imaginations that are so stupid to even sound true, and what you say about me only says a lot about yourself. So go ahead and manufacture more filthy, vulgar abuse that you're no doubt capable of against me and if possible against the whole world since you have a deluded thinking that the whole world is about to get you, and you must stomp and trample on them all to save your so-called imaginary space. Spare me.

I am sorry my fellow members. You might swallow the hurt and apologize on top of that to this member, but this member will only abuse you more for it...

I'm done here, and I have no immediate inclination to log in here again. Take care. Remember my dear family, stand for something. Today we are free. Don't be afraid to speak the truth. Principles before personalities, the program says... Don't just watch someone get abused... You're not powerless there... You all have a voice... No matter how one tries to distort the truth and fabricate lies, TRUTH IS! Love is the only way towards healing and recovery in NA, not hatred, or by imposing oneself or through abuse or tyrrany. And I feel so sad that, for Raman, LOVE was never enough!!!

I never knew that there was meetings in Chennai. I was there for a few months trying to get on the internet once in a while to get on to MIP and read everyones posts.

still recovering kenh.

oh kenh,,, i wish id known youd be ther,,, id have sent numbers and maybe even met you personally after a 5 hour drive to there from here !!
the thrill of meeeting face to face for the first time someone youve known by mail is great !!!
I remember the time when i met face to face in Bangalore at wthe Worldwideworkshop with a recovering friend of mine,,
and this was after 16 years of communication by phone,snail mail and email !!
words cant ever express those feelings=JOY IS ONE FEELING !
J and i are still very close to each other and still mail each other !!
That makes it nearly 20 years we know each other !!
what a trip its been !!!!!!!