I'm new on this forum, more of an old-timer AA person, whose drug of choice was alcohol, and secondarily marijuana. Been sober and straight 29 years. So I don't know so much about the NA world and its various addictions and recovery methods.I have a high school friend whose son went through some sort of rehab and is now on suboxone. I was asking how he's doing [they don't live nearby, and I've never met him], and if he's been continuously sober/clean. That's when she told me about the suboxone. I just did a little bit of reading on the 'net. It sounds like, technically, I wouldn't consider him to be sober, though I can appreciate that his life is dramatically better. He apparently goes to some meetings, though I don't know if he has a home group or a sponsor, or if he's doing anything with the steps. Sounds like he could use a sponser who's been down a similar road and has since gotten off suboxone.My first question is, would the general wisdom in NA be that he is not, in fact, technically sober/clean?
Our purpose is to remain clean,just for today,and to carry the message of recovery.
It's the people with the cracks that let the light shine through
metermaid wrote:Hi,I know several people who are addicts holding service positions, and they do quite well. Do you think you could pick an addict out of a crowd of service workers, or any crowd for that matter? Addicts are everyday people like you and I, who have jobs, (sounds like you would be really surprised at the positions addicts hold, and can maintain really well)By saying that addicts should not hold service positions, how have you come to that opinion? Everyday people are addicts! Police officers, lawyers, nurses, doctors, teachers, housewives, barbers, husbands, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers, ministers, and that's only a minut example.
Being clean I would define as freedom from active addiction. Or so thats what NA literature states. Suboxone gets you high. People on suboxone don't have any idea what being clean even feels like. They have been high for so long that narcotics only make them feel normal. They have no idea what it takes to stay clean because they are not clean.
I know this thread is a couple years old, however, it was the first site that popped up when I searched "suboxone and sobriety" and I wanted to post in case anyone else reads an old thread. While I realize I am about to be somewhat hypocritical in taking an issue with people being judgemental, while also being judgement, I need to say something. The people who say suboxone isn't recovery have no idea what they are talking about. These people are pointing fingers and they have no right to do so. Furthermore, none of these people have any idea what they are talking about, at least that is my impression. Basically, it sounds like a bunch of ignorant people making judgement calls for something they know nothing about. This includes that bulletin #29 that some people, or the same person, keeps mentioning. I am sick of this superior attitude that people who aren't on replacement therapy have "real suboriety" which translates into "better sobierty" because they aren't taking a perscribed medication. Granted some people who are on suboxone aren't free from active addiction because they aren't taking the medicine as perscribed or are getting it on the street instead of from a doctor. Unless you have actually taken suboxone you cannot say, with any credibility, that subxone is just subsituting one drug for another, blocks feelings, people are still trying to fill a hole with a drug, and whatever other nonsense people have been spewing. Suboxone doesn't get a person high, there is no euphoria, it doesn't block emotions and feelings and it isn't substitution in traditional sense where a person simply changes their drug a choice and still have the same behaviors. When used correctly, suboxone allows a person to stop using, stop withdrawals, change addictive behavior, learn how to have fun and make friends while not under the influence of drugs, and a variety of other positive changes. Suboxone also isn't an easy way out because it is not nearly enough. If people want to stay sober while taking suboxone they need to work hard at changing themselves. There is a HUGE difference between physical dependence and addiction. Diabetics are physically dependent on insulin, people are physically dependent on blood pressure medicine, on heart medicine, and on mental health medicine, most of which has mood altering chemicals. Furthermore, just because something is an opiate doesn't automatically make a person using. It really is no different than any of the other medications and conditions I listed. Is a diabetic not sober because they are physically dependent on insulin? I highly doubt anyone would make such an outragous claim. How about people who are on Benzos, pain killers, and ADHD medicine, never abuse those addicting drugs, take them exactly as perscribed, and have changed their addictice behaviors still using? How is Naltrexone any different than suboxone. Even though Naltrexone doesn't contain any opiate combonent it helps with cravings and it blocks opiates, just like suboxone. Despite what some people in 12 step programs want to think, there is no better way to stay sober and people need to stop being so superior by looking down on others who choose different tools to stay sober.
If you don't agree with 12 step programs approach like NA which is complete abstinence then don't go to the meetings. Its a choice. Duh...
I too came here after googling suboxone and NA just to see if NAs stance has changed and I didn't know about it. Thr "bulletins" being referred to is actually an IP pamphlet that's hard to find bc it's pricey and not many groups supply it unless they are really big. It doesn't have a number, it's called In Times of Illness. . It clearly states that WE are not doctors. And WE have NO opinion and cannot decide who needs or does not need medication for their issue.
My clean date is 5/26/02. Never having been into pills or even seen heroin since it's not my DOC when I went on pain meds for some very real pain issues several years ago under the care of a Pain Managment physicIan I became addicted to them. Never took them wrong. Never took too many. Never got high. And nope. Didn't lose my clean time since I was using them as prescribed under the care of a doc. Fast forward several years I decided I didn't want to be married to these things , was building a tolerance and was tired to raising my dose, I had to go on suboxone to get off them. I tried to stop cold turkey but I just don't have the schedule that allows being pill sick for weeks at a time. I need to work (have had the same job for three years) and as I take care of an elderly couple in their home I can't take off to get well. So subs were the only way to go.
Im sorry, but I'm clean. I don't care who likes it or who doesn't. Those NA members who say suboxone or methadone patients aren't clean should read the IP I mentioned above. Google it. It's available on line. It states that we should be supportive and should concentrate on things that unify us not tear us apart. It's a shame that people spout crap like "They aren't clean". And "it alters your mood and mind". Nope. It doesn't and yes I am I still have all my emotions and I don't use more than prescribed. My doctor and I are working on titration so that I can get off some day bc I don't want to be dependent on any drug.
Come into the 21st century people. Opiates are here to stay and we are going to see more and more people on drugs like suboxone or metahadon. These people need to be WELCOMED into the group...meeting...area....region...how can we recover if you don't allow them to do step work (the foundation for growth in recovery) or hold service positions? we are as competent and capable as someone not on suboxone. Hell, there are four of us at my job, I'm the only one in recovery, the only one on suboxone and I'm the supervisor. I'm a work in progress.....and I support anyone who has the guts to admit they have a problem and want to do something about it. First step people....the first step......
if you are spouting your PERSONAL OPINION then you aren't answering the initial question. The TRUE ANSWER is NA HAS NO OPINION ON MEDICATION SINCE WE ARE NOT DOCTORS. That we should consult our physician, tell them we are in recovery, pray, work our steps, keep in contact with our sponsor and take our medication as prescribed. Other than that, I suggest, personal opinions aside, find the In Times of Illness and read it. It tells exactly what NA thinks of meds in recovery which is we have no opinion.
@brendanlives. You are wrong. They don't say a thing about drug replacement. Until you know what you're talking about you should refrain from commenting on thIs topic bc you are wrong.
brendanlives wrote:I think that the important thing to keep in mind is that NA literature states "drug replacement" is not clean. It may work for people and they are free to go do whatever they need to. Its just not considered clean in NA According to the literature. NA is offering a solution that starts with complete abstinence. They welcome people who are still using in their meetings because abstinence is not a requirement for membership. However they consider being on drug replacement still using. You can lie to yourself, you can lie to your doctor, you can find other people telling the same lies but deep down we all know suboxone is not clean. It may save your life or make it better and thats great but you are still in the grips of addiction and your still getting high period.
I think that the important thing to keep in mind is that NA literature states "drug replacement" is not clean. It may work for people and they are free to go do whatever they need to. Its just not considered clean in NA According to the literature. NA is offering a solution that starts with complete abstinence. They welcome people who are still using in their meetings because abstinence is not a requirement for membership. However they consider being on drug replacement still using. You can lie to yourself, you can lie to your doctor, you can find other people telling the same lies but deep down we all know suboxone is not clean. It may save your life or make it better and thats great but you are still in the grips of addiction and your still getting high period.
Where does it state drug replacement is not clean? I'm confused.....as someone with double digit clean time I simply cannot find the NA approved literature you are quoting. I own every piece of literature NA has put out including some IPs that are no longer in print or never were, have an extensive NA collection including some things owned by Jimmy K and I cannot find that which you quote. Enlighten me.
How am I lying to my doctor? He prescribes my medic for me. How am I lying to myself? I know why I am taking my meds. So I can continue to function as I have for the last 14 years. As a productive member of society and NA. I take it as prescribed as I did my opiate pain meds (while in recovery) but unfortunately my body didn't get the memo that it wasn't for fun, I wasn't getting high and I don't want to take it....so it decided it needed to withdrawal which I couldn't fit into my productive work schedule of OVER 60 hours a week in a medicsl supervisory position.
Uneducated comments like the one you gave are the reason that some people don't go to meetings. They are afraud to meet up with people like you. Get with your sponsor and read your literature. You're supposed to welcome all newcomers. You're supposed to be compassionate and caring. Unless you haven't gotten to that step yet. Last time I checked you weren't my HP, so there's really no reason for you to judge me.....walk a mile in my shoes. Maybe you will change your mind. Just sayin