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Post Info TOPIC: Clarifying the clarity statement !!!


Guru

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Clarifying the clarity statement !!!


Beware folks,, one individual is trying to creat havoc by mis-quoting and misrepresenting facts about the clarity statement.

Plese read the following and be very careful about taking sides. 

"In keeping with the focus of unity found in the 12 steps, and traditions of narcotics anonymous, we ask that you use the NA language of recovery. That means; we refer to our disease simply as Addiction.
We identify simply as addicts.
We refer to our time as clean time or Recovery.
This is not done to be different, better than, or controversial. This is done because in our 1st step, we shifted the focus off Specific drugs, and onto the disease of addiction. So that the recovery process is then possible.
This leaves us with the single focus on the unity necessary for recovery.
Any labels which imply specific drugs, or more than one disease dilutes that focus, therefore causing the unity called for in our 1st tradition to be lost
"

"In Narcotics Anonymous, we are presented with a dilemma. When NA members identify themselves as "addicts and alcoholics," "cross-addicted, " or talk about living "clean and sober," the clarity of the
NA message is blurred.
To speak in this manner suggests that there
are two diseases; that one drug is separate from the rest. Narcotics
Anonymous
makes no distinction between drugs. Our identification as
addicts is all-inclusive, allowing us to concentrate on our
similarities, not our differences"


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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!


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Where does it say we should not name the drugs we used ??
It simply requests us to identify us addicts, no matter what drugs we used.

Where does it control the language we use ?
It simply requests us to refrain from identifying us as addict and alcohoilc and thereby imply two different diseases. It guides us to understand that addiction is what we are recovering from and not specific substances.

So,, what is wrong with that ?
What is wrong with the clarity statement being read in NA meetings ?

Would Wrold Srvice Conference and World Service Office have brought that out if it conflicted with our Traditions ?
No.

Be very careful.
This individual called Bruce sounds convincing but look at a previous post a see his history of going around the Fellowship and being shunned for his attempts at dis-unity.

We keep what we have only with vigilance,,,



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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!


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This whole controversy reminds me of the proverbial stray cat.
It will only go away when we stop feeding it.

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Keep it in the day.


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Morning it is so...I  normally don't "feed these cats" but yesterday I violated my 'own traditions" and replied my final aloha! more in defense of my friends and the tranquility of this forum, but WE ARE ALL BIG BOYS AND GIRLS HERE AND THAT WAS MY STUFF FEELING LIKE THE PROTECTIVE GRANDFATHER  all I can say is WORLD SERVICE BOARD BULLETIN#13. A debate here that will end in a split just like "is it a disease" etc. I have forgiven myself for not leaving it alone and am praying for the individual and my future better judgement.I can share anything that affects my recovery as long as it is experience and not opinion,NOT DEVISIVE', I am not stuck in problem but working in the solution and it is my stuff not necessarily that of NA.Lets get back to our "primary " purpose carrying the NA message that an addict ,any addict can stop using drugs,lose the desire to use and find a new way to live.If you are new here ,please don;t let this blurp in our forum turn you away.We are here for each other,free to share in a loving caring manner...Have a blessed and productive day! We will love each other until we can learn to love ourselves.....smile

-- Edited by MIKEF on Friday 4th of June 2010 08:16:51 PM

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Our purpose is to remain clean,just for today,and to carry the message of recovery. 



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jeeze louise!

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From dying and surviving to living and thriving. LeeU


Guru

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ha, ha, well,, Im not certain if Im confused or you are Bruce.
If you go into it, these are only suggestions, well taken by most when sharing.

Most people do that by their own free will and choice, and do not see that an infringement of their personal freedom.
I do so too.

After all in AA an alcoholic would say " Im an alcoholic " cause thats what they are recovering from.
In Gamblers Anonymous they'd say "Im a gambler" cause gambling is what they are recovering from.
In Sex Addicts they say "Im a sex addict" cause sex addict is what they are recovering from

That's why in NA we identify as addicts, cause addiction is what we are recovering from.

And buddy look, lets get honest here.
Youve been asking questions so Im asking one of you too=
Is raking up issues and creating disturbances your secondary addiction ?
Are you an arsonist that's become passive but still in the grips of the dis-ease ?

Your actions point out to a violent nature that you havent applied recovery Princciples to.
And you've been hiding it under the phoney image of appearing to act on behalf of the newcomer.

That's a dirty game youre playing and another questions is
" How many newcomers has Bruce sent back to the streets by manipulating them into thinking like him ? "
(self-righteous, rebel without a cause and perpetually angry and not accepting of reality)

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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!


Guru

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And remember that this is a for the addict by the addict Program.

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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!


Guru

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Once again Bruce, youre quoting things out of context and taking bits and pieces without stating the full sentence.
 
I too share many times about how drunk I was or how high Id gotten or how desperate; yes I do. No one's objected to that.
 
However, I do not say 
" My name is Raman and I am an alcoholic and a addict".
I simply say " My name is Raman and I am an addict". 
I do this of my own free will and volition.

This shows Im not confused about who I really am.
But you bud, by trying to enforce your view that we can do as we like are encouraging confusion and self-doubt. 
Not only are you confused and in grave self-doubt, but would like others to be like that too,
so you can say
"Im not alone in this".

Just as you insisit you have a right to and say as you please, so do I insist that I will use NA specific language in my shares and identify as an addict and an NA member.

Dont you see your error now Brucie ???
Please admit the exact nature of your wrongs, for no matter how long you may argue or how tight that arguement may seem, it is basically in the wrong direction.

In the process, members less experienced with the application of the Traditions are being misguided by you.

-- Edited by Raman on Wednesday 2nd of June 2010 01:10:13 AM

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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!


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they don't call you guru for nothing raman i havce thought that th

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 some of us win some of us lose with god and this program i will  be a winner


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aw shucks Bret,, Im just a recovering addict, hoping to stay humble under the Grace of God.
thanks, that feels good after being under attack by Bruce.


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Raman an addict clean and serene just for today in NA Worldwide ; live to love and love to live the NA Way !!!


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Raman wrote:

Where does it say we should not name the drugs we used ??
It simply requests us to identify us addicts, no matter what drugs we used.

Where does it control the language we use ?
It simply requests us to refrain from identifying us as addict and alcohoilc and thereby imply two different diseases. It guides us to understand that addiction is what we are recovering from and not specific substances.

So,, what is wrong with that ?
What is wrong with the clarity statement being read in NA meetings ?

Would Wrold Srvice Conference and World Service Office have brought that out if it conflicted with our Traditions ?
No.

Be very careful.
This individual called Bruce sounds convincing but look at a previous post a see his history of going around the Fellowship and being shunned for his attempts at dis-unity.

We keep what we have only with vigilance,,,



Raman, trust me, I've quickly become a non-fan of Bruce, however, I take issue with some of what you've posted...

The clarity statement is NOT NA approved, none of them are and that's one of the reasons NAWS committees opted not to make it approved literature... too many versions.

In "What Is The NA Program", which is approved NA literature, it says, "We don't care what or how much you used..."  I interpret that to mean that it not necessary to talk about specific drugs or behaviors and, frankly, I think it's a good idea not to.  Newcomers can be easily triggered... IN MEETINGS.  When I was new and someone talked about my drug of choice in a meeting, my stomach would rumble.  Hell, the flick of a lighter affected me that way in a long time.

The newcomer is the most important person at ANY NA meeting and we can strive to be responsible in our sharing.  We have sponsors to talk with about our specific drug use, etc.  Meetings should be a place where we share experience, strength and hope.

 



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The truth does not change based on my inability to stomach it - Flannery O'Connor

My happiness grows in direct proportion to my acceptance and in inverse proportion to my expectations - Michael J. Fox


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In NA, we follow a program adapted from Alcoholics Anonymous. More than one million people have recovered in A.A., 

most of them just as hopelessly addicted to alcohol as we were 

to drugs. We are grateful to the A.A. Fellowship for showing us 

the way to a new life.

The Twelve Steps of Narcotics Anonymous, as adapted from 

A.A., are the basis of our recovery program. We have only broadened their perspective. We follow the same path with a single exception; our identification as addicts is all-inclusive with respect 

to any mood-changing, mind-altering substance. Alcoholism is 

too limited a term for us; our problem is not a specific substance, 

it is a disease called addiction. We believe that as a fellowship, 

we have been guided by a Greater Consciousness, and are grateful for the direction that has enabled us to build upon a proven 

program of recovery



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gerald a


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I have a question. Does referring to oneself as Clean and Sober or Addict Alcoholic break NA tradition? And if so, can you point it out in our literature?



-- Edited by hawghead on Wednesday 17th of December 2014 10:19:14 PM

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Guru

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It does not break NA traditions to call yourself and addict, alcoholic, or whatever. Our traditions say the only requirement for NA membership is a desire to stop using. They don't say you have to call yourself any specific thing.

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Dave R wrote:

It does not break NA traditions to call yourself and addict, alcoholic, or whatever. Our traditions say the only requirement for NA membership is a desire to stop using. They don't say you have to call yourself any specific thing.


 ...I totally agree with brother Dave above,,,though individual meetings can decide to suggest something to the effect .....''for the object of clarity,we consider alcohol to be a drug, and request that there be no distinction made''.

..personally ,I have no opinion on the matter otherwise. 



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...gawd,,,please don't let me -ever- forget why I came here in the first place!!(my 'senility' prayer)


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If the clarity statement was "Not NA Approved" They would not be saying it at Conventions, and only NA Approved literature(writings) are allowed in our meetings and conventions.

The following is on the bottom of the NA Clarity Statement, I have also attached a copy of it:

Extract from NA World Services Board of Trustees Bulletin # 13....



-- Edited by AlyssaW1979 on Tuesday 23rd of June 2015 03:21:07 PM

Attachments
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Alyssa W


Senior Member

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From my experience, you if you read the clarity statement, people just go ahead and say what they were going to say anyway. It's like whistling in the wind....

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Dave


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OH my goodness... It appears that I've missed Bruce (probably a good thing) so forgive me if my words lack relevancy.
Truly I am an addict of nearly everything... I am a juggler of self-destructive behaviour.
I'm here because my addiction to narcotics has been by far the most devastating and most compelling of all the evils I've allowed in my life.
Through circumstance I am muddling my way through the steps of NA on my own with the support of this forum.
Despite my modest knowledge of NA clarity and vernacular, I have always felt welcomed and cared about so I thank you.
I love this forum and appreciate everyone that has contributed to my sanity!
kd



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Actually it does break tradition six. You are associating AA with NA when you introduce yourself as an alcoholic. Basic text page 70. The other twelve step fellowship specializes in another problem. Ours is addiction. Our relationship is of cooperation not affiliation and saying you are an alcoholic states an implied endorsement. Same with saying "sober". What if there is a heroin addict that is new and yoi are the first to share and start talking about being sober and introduce yourself as an alcoholic? He might think he's in the wrong place. It causes confusion and you create diversity by doing it. Addict and clean is all inclusive. Period.

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I chose to live my life CLEAN. Not sober and clean. 



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Actually it does break tradition six. You are associating AA with NA when you introduce yourself as an alcoholic. Basic text page 70. The other twelve step fellowship specializes in another problem. Ours is addiction. Our relationship is of cooperation not affiliation and saying you are an alcoholic states an implied endorsement. Same with saying "sober". Addict and clean is all inclusive. Period. While the only requirement is a desire to stop using the traditions all work together. One cant simply follow one tradition and ignore the others.

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I chose to live my life CLEAN. Not sober and clean. 



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    I have been reading this and really finally have to respond. First of all, the only requirement is a desire to stop using. How one chooses to identify oneself is entirely up to the individual. Second, if you want to quote chapter and verse from the Basic Text, it specifically makes a distinction between alcohol and drugs in the second paragraph of the Introduction (Fifth Edition): "More than one million people have recovered in A.A., most of them just as hopelessly addicted to alcohol as we were to drugs." Note this makes a distinction between alcohol and drugs, implying they are two different substances. This statement also implies that drugs are the source of our problem, not a disease called "addiction". 

    I take exception to the Clarity Statement because it tries to impose rules of conduct and language on a fellowship that "ought never be organized" and in doing so fosters exclusivity rather than inclusiveness. No one seems to take up arms against "junkies" or "crackheads", etc. in meetings, but alcohol seems a hot button issue. As far as I am concerned, the only thing that matters is "what you want to do about your problem and how we can help". Narcotics Anonymous, and our experience, strength and hope are how we help.

    I have lots more to say but this is all for now. ILS - Bill E

 



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Member

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If you want to only follow the first tradition and ignore the rest, specifically tradition 6. That's up to you and well you work your recovery. Tradition six clearly states that our relationship is one of cooperation not affiliation. By someone saying they're an alcoholic and sober makes a clear affiliation with AA while in an NA meeting. Period.

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I chose to live my life CLEAN. Not sober and clean. 



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Bill. How about you finish what the rest of that paragraph says. It was simply giving a basis into our broader perspective and specifically says we focus on the disease. I think you are just trolling these boards.

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You don't think addiction is a disease? Wow. Maybe you should do a better fourth step. You still seem selfish.

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Michael - I am not trolling these boards. This topic had not been active for a long time. I was notified of the new messages because I had previously been active on this topic. Thanks for your comments. I was hoping we could spur some discussion. I look forward to hearing more on your perspective.

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I just gave 2 responses on my perspective there's nothing else to add. It clearly states that addiction is a disease and it clearly states in tradition six not to make an affiliation with other fellowships by saying I'll coholic and by saying sober that is a clear affiliation

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I chose to live my life CLEAN. Not sober and clean. 



Member

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The 6th Tradition specifically addresses group, not individual conduct. As for the terms "clean" and "sober", while fellowships may have co-opted them for their own purposes, they are not the property of said fellowships.

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Page 55 Basic Text , last sentence.



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H.O.W.


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P.55 in which edition? I have the 5th Edition.

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6th edition.

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I chose to live my life CLEAN. Not sober and clean. 



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Thanks!

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Member

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Are you referring to the "A meeting a day..." sentence?

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Member

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Should read 6th tradition it works how and why. It specifically says that its up to us as individuals to use na literature and language.

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I chose to live my life CLEAN. Not sober and clean. 



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Thanks.

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It works how and why sixth tradition is very specific.

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I chose to live my life CLEAN. Not sober and clean. 



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If we are being picky about our terms, Isn't it called Narcotics Anonymous? If one were so inclined, one might bring up the argument that name is misleading. We don't just deal with Narcotics. We deal face the disease of addiction. Again if were gonna be picky about our words, shouldn't it be named Addicts Anonymous. Oops that would give us a confusing double acronym A.A. and A.A. Or maybe we just keep things the way they are, which is: Some people identify themselves as addict/alcoholic (even after having heard the clarity statement a zillion times). They are in the right spot anyway. - And some, upon hearing this will become agitated and say to themselves or out loud "addict and clean is all inclusive". The argument itself is as old as N.A.

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Good one Greg. My sponsor could speak volumes to that subject, I'll have to ask him about it!

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Dave


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Demanding conformity from members in speech, thought or otherwise does not, in my view, nurture the inclusiveness and diversity the fellowship needs to continue to grow and thrive. Conformity is not unity.

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Greg B wrote:

If we are being picky about our terms, Isn't it called Narcotics Anonymous? If one were so inclined, one might bring up the argument that name is misleading. We don't just deal with Narcotics. We deal face the disease of addiction. Again if were gonna be picky about our words, shouldn't it be named Addicts Anonymous. Oops that would give us a confusing double acronym A.A. and A.A. Or maybe we just keep things the way they are, which is: Some people identify themselves as addict/alcoholic (even after having heard the clarity statement a zillion times). They are in the right spot anyway. - And some, upon hearing this will become agitated and say to themselves or out loud "addict and clean is all inclusive". The argument itself is as old as N.A.


 Bill and Dr Bob did not want their to be two AA's....and seeing we completely borrowed their steps and traditions, it was only being polite to find some other initials. AND in the beginning it was all about heroin.



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